From the Sheriff of Nottingham PWC blog:
The Sheriff will make this offer:
The PWC Republican Committee passes a resolution strongly endorsing a Flat Tax Bill for FY 2014 for Prince William County that affirms the Republican principles of lower taxes and smaller government. And then the PWC Republican Committee informs the Republican members of the BOCS that the Republican Party endorsement in the next election is contingent on their support for the Flat Tax Bill resolution and the principles that support it.In return, The Sheriff agrees to muzzle his sharp tongue in the future and express only the most civil of criticisms when necessary. Cross my heart, hope to die.Seems like a fair deal to The Sheriff.What say you?
***
What say I? I say that the Republican Party of Prince William County should not be held hostage or allow itself to be a victim of extortion or blackmail. There is room for debate regarding a flat tax. However, that debate in no way settles the issue. We must consider education and public safety first.
***
Most of us don’t really look at the R and the D behind a person’s name as much as we look at their vision for the county. I don’t really think property taxes have gone up much at all the last few years. In fact, mine went down significantly there for a while. I am tired of the whining. We don’t have high taxes here in Prince William County. Cheap isn’t necessarily better.
***
If memory serves me correctly, Robin of Locksley came along to protect the people from the Sheriff of Nottingham. Where is Robin Hood?
LOVE it Moon! Where is Robin Hood, the real hero?
What arrogance! Who is some anonymous schlub to dictate policy for 400,000 prince william residents? Medication may be appropriate for this grandioise ideology!
I sincerely hope that the local Republicans immediately draw their line in the sand and stand up to this kind of coercion. I will certainly stand with them if they follow the right path.
I have Republican friends and I am tired of all this blackmail Grover Norquist-esk style pressure on these candidates. It is destroying the county.
The GOP is going to have get back to the point where the crazies aren’t calling the shots. I am tired of moderates being called RINOS. If this doesn’t change, there will be no GOP. There aren’t enough crazies to make much of a dent. What will happen is, a new party will form. one that employees conservative ideas and principles and could have some moderates at the helm. Republicans will need to decide if they want to give in the Norquist bullies and never hold elected office after a point or….play well with the rest of America and once again hold office.
Think I am wrong? Where are all the moderate Republicans? Are they in office? No. More and more R’s are going to be out of office if they are extremist.
Do people seriously think Cuccinelli is going to br governor? I see flying donkeys. He might be able to soft-peddle his extremist positions but his political enemies aren’t going to let that happen. Stick a fork in him. He is done.
From a search on the Sheriff of Nottingham. Not the most upstanding of characters:
The sheriffs were unpaid by the king, and had to pay a yearly sum to hold the office. No matter. The sheriffs made enough money from their various duties to pay off the king and still make a handsome profit. There were many attempts to reform the sheriffs, but there were always some rotten apples.
The sheriffs that Robin Hood fights are greedy and corrupt, abusing their authority by collecting too many taxes. The sheriff might be the legal authority in Nottinghamshire, but he was most certainly not the moral authority.
Why would anyone think the Sheriff is anyone but the Gainesville budget gang?
Or perhaps the spouse of a committe member; like the Director of Community Outreach BoCS. Who knows, just a thought.
Why does the BoCS need a community outreach, much less a director? Is that to work with those receiving grant money or what? @Ivan
I think the question is, is this a PWC Gov. job or a position created by a supervisor? Is this position paid for by budgeted county funds or by a supervisor’s “dicretionary funds? Is this job on the “flat tax” chopping block? Perhaps a call to Mrs. Peacor could clear this up.
Ivan, let us know what you find out.
Me thinks that there is more to this pressuring the county Republican committe than meets the eye. The vote last Tues. to continue on with last years 5 year budget forecast with a 4% increase each year was a total rejection of the Corey/Candland flat tax proposal. The whole idea is DOA. Those board members that voted to continue on the same budget path nare not going to suddenly change their minds and do a 180 degree turn. So why is the Sheriff doing an “end run” around the budget process to try to revive the flat tax? The next election is in three years. This can’t be positioning by a potential candidate for some sort of run in 2015. It’s just too far off with too many variables. Does some one have something to gain that we don’t know about? Those of us who were around during the Watergate investigations should remember the term “follow the money”.
I dont know where to follow the money to, Little John. You are right though, there is more to this than meets the eye.
I am glad I am an Independent and don’t have get involved with either party’s reindeer games.
All I can say is this…if the public knew of the vitriol that was being spread, the R’s wouldn’t fare well.
Well, Corey “tried his best” with the flat tax and was outvoted- probably what he envisioned all along. He burnished his credentials with the Tea Party crowd with a proposal he never had any intention of implementing.
Just like with the anti-immigrant issue where he glommed onto Stirrup’s position, he took advantage of Candland in this instance and came out the winner. Just as when he was elected as a slow-growth “greenie” and then proceeded to become the developers lackey. He uses who he needs to use to move himself ahead. He is the worst example of a self-serving politician.
This is all sounding mighty familiar, I am sad to say. I hope Pete realizes what is really going on. Corey wants to appear to be no-tax man, it appears, since “I hate Illegals” isn’t working out for him and is no longer in vogue.
Interesting, Moon. “Robin Hood” was the author of the”Moron Tabernacle Choir” attack blog prepared against Candland a few months ago by Corey Stewart and some of his top campaign advisers. Is that where you’re headed? The picture of Robin Hood taking aim–along with your words–surely seem to suggest such. Seems a bit antithetical to the Golden Rule tenets that you’ve been preaching of late. You say you don’t allow attacks on county employees because they can’t fight back, but here you are hosting comments about county employees that you think may support your own views. You have heretofore seemed far too principled to head in this direction. In the beginning, The Sheriff received your full support–as long as The Sheriff was out to get Corey; let something neutral (not even nice) be said about the Chairman, and now you’re going to finish the Robin Hood saga that Corey himself started? Oh, the irony!
Amber, I left off one thing. The sheriff didn’t receive my FULL support. He/she was the new kid on the block and I gave him a chance. I don’t give anyone my full support. If he went back to his original demeanor I would support him more than I do now. I have said why I have backed off.
The part that has amused me to date is the issue over that 4% in the five-year plan – it is the cost primarily of debt service from the 2006 Bond Refrendum approved by the PWC Voters. And yet, Mr. Stewart speaks to building more roads (which is primarily what was in that bond since that bond contained a list of roads – to include the $1.2mil recently released for the Rt 1 project that created a stir). He also talks of having another Bond Refrendum.
And yet, how can one balance a flat tax arguement when the debt service on the projects voted on within PWC are coming due for payment? Unfortunately, the couple of times Staff has logically presented the numbers, they are being ignored or the “twist” is there is a “4% tax increase” versus showing the original vote on the bonds.
Thank you for the clarification, Moon. I accept it as a friendly amendment and will accordingly correct my own statement above. I also appreciate your comment that you have “backed off” in terms of your support for the Sheriff; that is–in my mind, at least–an image far superior to those I saw a few months ago when the first PWC Robin Hood had decided to aim arrows at Pete Candland. Far superior and far kinder.
No, I don’t want to shoot Pete with arrows. The arrow only made it up there because I still think Kevin Cosner is hot.
I don’t follow PWC events as closely as many here. Could someone educate me on exactly how a “flat tax” concept has relevance in a county context in Virginia? Is this an income tax proposal? That seems unlikely since the County doesn’t tax income. I thought that property taxes already were “flat” in that everyone pays the same rate on residential property. No doubt I’m missing something quite fundamental here. I am ignorant on this subject, but (I hope) capable of learning.
Scout, Good morning. I think it means that your real estate tax will not increase from one year to the next.
Think is the operative word here. I don’t see why that can happen. If the school system gets 56.75% of the revenue I don’t know how we can add approximately 2000 students a year and not increase money to the schools. It sounds like they plan to pack them in even deeper per classroom. There is a basic math here that doesn’t make sense. On top of that there is the vRS issue.
That blog never came into being and I didn’t even know it was the name, as I am sure Moon is in the same boat.
Scout, exactly what I was wondering, ergo the explanation from Andy Harrover from Manassas. Check out the comments on the thread regarding “never again” and you will find an answer. In a nutshell, the county figures how to tax you the same amount on your real estate bill from the previous year. Still not sure how that happens in reality though, seems like a colossal pain in the “arse” to determine for the county.
Elena, the county simply sets it’s real estate tax rate at the level that will compensate for an increase in your accessment. If your assessment goes up, the rate goes down accordingly so that your bill is the same as last year’s. This is different from Steve Forbes proposed “Flat Tax” on income where everyone regardless of their income pays the same “flat” rate, no deductions, no itemization.
Thanks for the information. I’m not sure why it would be a good thing for the tax to remain steady. Values swing considerably, and if the tax remained a fixed amount in absolute terms, it could be an onerous burden during a housing bust. Of course, that is one of the big problems with ad valorem property taxes – they are a tax on values, as opposed to cash in hand. Values can be pretty ephemeral things. The whole concept of having estimated property values as a benchmark for the major revenue source for the counties is one that strikes me as having had its best days at least a hundred years ago. It would be much better to tax income (or give counties a piece of the state’s tax on incomes). I find the flat tax idea very attractive when applied to income taxation, but not so much when applied to real property taxes.
Now I am confused. It sounds like my taxes could go up.
@Scout
That’s because you are an unabashed Connaughton sycophant and supporter of his past real property tax and budget shell-games. I haven’t forgotten.
Has everyone seen the comparison of the PWC tax BILL to Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax and Loudoun? Heck, even Stafford! PWC needs to invest in PWC now. Public Safety (Fire and Police) has not been getting what they need, in fact they’ve been cut. Community Services Board is not getting what they need and they’ve been cut. Proposals to cut School Resource officers and continued reductions to services for the mentally ill is what you flat bill people want? Fewer parks, fewer cultural activities, sinking schools, volunteer firefighters, fewer cops,…..the jail is in dire need of funding and expansion. Should we wait like the last time for the Courts to step in? That does wonders for a bond rating.
The carryover nonsense is just that. The majority of that is debt and technology. Look at the outcomes of agencies – by percent not dollars. A 0.09% balance is far less sensational than $900,000.
Use your heads. No, it’s not perfect, are you?
I am beginning to think flat tax and flat earth are synonymous. Sorry if that insults but I simply can’t imagine how the adoption of a flat tax policy would help Prince William County. It might help the cheap skates but other than that….it will just drag the county down. The county already has the reputation of Manass-holes and Hoodbridge.
Manass-hole is more directed at Prince william County and not the City. It always has been.
But Little John, my tax assessment when DOWN while I know many people’s tax rate rose. Assessment are NOT flat, so my house value may decrease while someone elses increase. Ensuring how an entire county’s tax assessment remains falt sounds very complicated to me.
not tax rate, tax assessemt rose! We all have the same tax rate. Like I’ve always said, the tax assessment is a shell game. Real estate goes up, tax rate goes down…..Real estate goes down, tax rate goes up!
The bottom line is that the amount you pay this year will be the same as last year regardless of your property value. This is under the assumption that values rise or fall equally across the entire county. We all know that that is not necessarily true.
It certainly isn’t. I know that in 2007/2008, my property values dropped a lot more than in other areas of the same magisterial district. The foreclosures pulled our property vlaues down.//….oh almost half.
And the cost of services does not increase.
@Wendy
How can that be? Even gasoline costs go up and down. Just thinking about the school system….it isn’t just adding 2k students. What does a dollar’s difference in gas do to the budget? How about an unusually cold winter? A hot spring and summer?
Sarcasm.
Thank goodness. I was beginning to doubt my sanity.
MOM: Yep. I think Connaughton was outstanding as PWC BOS Chairman, as United States Maritime Administrator, and as Secretary of Transportation of the Commonwealth. He seems to have a gift for leadership and executive capacity. Rarely do we get a public servant of his calibre at any level. And I like what he did with taxes in PWC. In addition to his tenure in PWC coinciding with a much improved image for the County, his tax initiatives had the side benefit of forcing FFX, where I live, to lower tax rates considerably. So, how does that undermine anything in my comment at 1123? I do not like ad valorem property taxes and think they are a sub-optimal revenue source for the reasons I stated (and several others). I take it you are a great fan of them. But my views on property taxes would be roughly the same even if I had as low opinion of Connaughton as you apparently do.
Nonetheless, I’m pleased you remember my enthusiasm. There are so few people that I admire in these political positions, that I like to share my positive feelings when one of the unusual ones comes along. It’s so easy these days to be cranky and sour.
Early on under Connaughton, VDOT discovered a billion dollar “turnback”. That’s about 22% of their current 4.7B budget and is what I call statistically significant. The money was found with the help of an outside auditor (gasp).
Dave Tyeryar former PWC Budget Director left for VDOT and has been instrumental in turning their budget management around.
Connaughton was outstanding. Except for bringing PWC Transportation along.
Don’t let me stop you.
Moon:
My name is Alice Haddow, and I am the person about whom “Ivan” is offering conjecture in comment #6 above. I am a county employee, and I work for Pete Candland. I accepted the job with Pete when he asked because I have very high respect for him, and I believe very strongly in the philosophy about government on which he campaigned.
I left a comfortable position in the federal government that had far more security, required fewer hours, and offered significantly better benefits than does my current position with the county. Because our Supervisor is himself an extraordinarily hard worker, I have found that I have to consistently work 50 and 60 hour plus weeks to ensure that the Gainesville District office runs smoothly. Twelve-hour work days are often the norm, and seven-day work weeks are not uncommon. In a district with 58,000 constituents and a current staff of 2.5 employees (thankfully, one more FTE will join us tomorrow), the demands for time and assistance are voluminous, the email inbox never sleeps, and I simply cannot meet the requirements of this job without working these long hours. I am known among my friends as an extremely diligent, very responsible individual, and I can honestly say I have never worked harder in my life than I have at this job.
Until recently, my job title in Supervisor Candland’s office was the Director of Community Outreach. “Ivan” has chosen to speculate about this title, but the fact is Supervisors can assign any title they choose for their staff members to designate the areas of assignment in their office. Recently, I was named the Chief-of-Staff in the office. My new role does not change that much; same long hours doing all we can to assist constituents and meet the plethora of challenges that come our way.
Given your policy not to allow criticism of county employees because they cannot defend themselves, I’m hopeful that this simple description will suffice. I have not asked Supervisor Candland for permission to offer this comment, and he may choose to sanction me for doing so. But I feel the comments need to be answered—preferably at some point in person, but in the meantime with this relatively simple response:
The suggestion that I am The Sheriff of Nottingham is absolutely not true. I am not The Sheriff, nor is any member of my family.
I know that a former staffer is spreading this falsehood widely. It is important for those who are given this information to know that his individual made the commitment as she left the staff that she would do all she could to make trouble for Pete and those of us who continued to work in the office. She has been unrelenting in her efforts to fulfill that threat, and her frequent and obvious comments on Moonhowlings, or those whom she has recruited to assist her, are being used in pursuit of that effort. Whether you are willingly complicit or not in this effort is not the issue; it nonetheless serves the ulterior purpose of this very angry person.
The basis for your rule on criticizing county staffers, as I understand it, is that attacks are unfairly hurtful and levied against those who are not in position to adequately defend themselves. I stand as the perfect example of the wisdom of that rule. I ask that you enforce it, to the best of your ability, equitably for all county staffers and not open the door to criticize the staff of a Supervisor with whom you or your readers may have a policy disagreement, particularly when the disagreement is based on innuendo and in this case, conjecture that is completely false.
@Alice Haddow
Welcome to Moonhowlings.
Absolutely ANY county employee has moonhowlings protection. Prince William County employees work hard, are generally underpaid and under appreciated, and I don’t think the average citizen has any idea what is involved, especially when many of them often are doing the job of 2 or 3 people.
I had no idea supervisors had the freedom to name their position titles whatever they wanted. Interesting. I guess I learn something new every day. Thanks for that information.
As for the former staffer using us to spread falsehoods, I really think you are incorrect. Email me privately who you think that it is. I don’t believe that individual comes to this blog. If she does, she has not made herself know to either of us. While I don’t know all of our blog contributors, I know many of them. While I will not confirm anyone’s identity, which is the policy of most blog adminstrators, I can certainly tell you who someone is not.
I expect that individual dislikes us as much as she dislikes you all.
Additionally, I am not sure how strong anyone’s speculation here is on Sheriff identity. People will always guess where anonymity is concerned. I am only half paying attention to what is going on. My friend of longest duration moved across country this weekend. I have been very distracted. We have all been rattled beyond our core by the tragic mass murder of little children in our country. That has also been very distracting. If I have overlooked something critical this weekend, I apologize.
You’re adding FTE’s? How nice for you!
FTE = full time employee? I don’t know all the acronymns. I just guess.
Hey, you got more staff than county recruitment has. Candland said his plan would cut more vacant positions. Huh?
@Moon-howler
Full time equivalent. 1 = 37.5 hours per week.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspective Alice. We strive to be fair here on Moonhowlings. I can tell you, no one influences Moon and I, especially ex employees who bear grudges.