Is Fredericks actually saying that the tea party is going to cause the Republicans to crash and burn at the election? it sure sounds like it to me.
I am just not one to count chickens before they hatch.
The reality is, very few people are far right or far left anythings. The people who win elections are those who appeal to the middle. Elections are won and lost by the middle, not by the purists of either political extreme.
As I touched base with many of my Republican buds, I believe most of them were speechless.
I saw this happen many years ago, before there was such a thing as a tea party. Ollie North and Michael Farris were somehow involved. It was then I made my resolution to never attend another Republican convention, as a vendor or anything else.
Then the “moderates” had better get motivated and organized.
If the “mainstream” doesn’t like it, then, perhaps they need to do something about the perceived problems that are motivating the Tea Party people and take those issues for themselves.
I would say that the T-Mac moderates are pretty well motivated.
The problem is, the extremes aren’t electible. Surely you see that?
I guess as an outsider, I don’t see why the tea party would put the entire party in the position of loosing with Jackson and Cuccinelli.
Moon: I don’t think you give enough weight to the fact that the Government of the Commonwealth has given extraordinary privileges to the two major parties to control access to all governmental activity in the state. It is next to impossible to form up a third party and get candidates on the ballot. The laws actively discourage it. That leaves both parties considerable wiggle room to nominate completely sub-standard candidates and place the citizens in a position where they have only a meager choice. Each of the candidates will now put on moderate trappings from here out to November. The citizens will have to either choose one or the other or stay home.
Cuccinelli has already shown his hand time and time again. Are that many people unaware of his nature?
As for Jackson, I doubt if he will do it.
Obenshain, I can’t call that one. My cousins could though.
Thanks for explaining all that, Scout.
Well, let’s be clear. Cuccinelli is electable statewide because Q.E.D.
Jackson, one the other hand…
I am not so sure Virginians are gullible enough to do it again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I’ve heard it said that Cuccinelli is a bit miffed that the Jackson story line and the dramatic convention events, which are indeed highly newsworthy, are eclipsing somewhat Cuccinelli’s moment of glory. Of course, Cuccinelli, in his zeal to have a directed convention that would make his nomination a certainty, created conditions where a fiery orator who can fire up the base could emerge. It is unlikely that Jackson would have won a statewide primary.
@Scout
I completely agree with you.
Ouch, Frederick was scathing when he said Jackson doesn’t know the job of LG, nor does he care…
No way Jackson would have won a primary. Who goes to these conventions but the most diehard supporters. The average joe who would vote in a primary is excluded from the process.
E.W. Jackson didn’t make up the rules for this event. Just like everyone else, he contested for the prize under the common parameters, and he won it. Tough luck for Frederick and Bolling and all the other whiners who seem to think they have the exclusive right to determine results. They obviously got blindsided and trumped by a fighter. How embarrassing for their egos.
I would not refer to a small homogeneous gathering as a place of common parameters.
You’re wrong on both counts. I would hardly call the delegates at Saturday’s convention homogeneous. Did they have a broad, overarching common ethos, even that would be a stretch given the various factions. There were more than a dozen different distinct groups, each with their own particular agenda that may or may not have have largely matched that of a particular other faction. That being said, those agendas were also antithetical to those of other factions, thus a convention that resembled a close in knife fight in many respects. As to the common parameters, yes there were common parameter as prescribed by party rules (that’s not to say that the rules weren’t broken by some candidates and RPV), parameters that governed the manner in which the convention operated an parameters that applied to all candidates and factions. The problem that the RPV and candidates like Snyder and Stewart had was that they were outplayed in game with rules rigged in their favor. You guys seem to be laying the Jackson selection at the feet of the Tea Party, although there is some, I repeat some, merit to that the prime driver was a revolt against the RPV establishment by multiple factions tired of the same old same old slate of candidates being force fed down their throats by RPV.
No, I’m not wrong. It was a sorry display of what our founding father had in mind.
One broad overreaching group missing was the Westboro Baptist Church.
One broad overreaching group missing was the Westboro Baptist Church.
Then you don’t know the history of our founding fathers who engaging in considerably more and much bitter infighting, they didn’t sit around the campfire singing Kumbaya when planning to revolt against the rule of King George. In fact, Jefferson and even more so, Madison, would have been very much at home had they been able to attend on Saturday.
Riding a little high in the stirrups, are we?
Speaking for Jefferson and Madison?
👿
You know TJ and I have that unique connection that those who attended Mr. Jefferson’s University consider a birthright, as to Madison, he was as mean and good at manipulating the rules (often anonymously) as I am and would likely consider me a protege. Notice I didn’t mention those drunk Yankee bastards like Adams.
Sorry, shouldn’t try to enter things and talk on the phone at the same time, haven’t quite mastered multi-tasking.
I reject Frederick’s assertion of the Tea Party “storming” the convention. All factions within the party had equal opportunity to register as a delegate, and attend. The more conservative amongst the GOP just chose to do so.
I was in the count-room, and saw the (expected) drop off in total votes cast, during each round of balloting. Davis gets knocked off, and some of her moderate supporters leave. Martin gets knocked off, and some of his leave. 2 hours later, fewer votes cast gives greater voting power in the weighted vote-tally of those chosing to stay. Same for the third, same for the fourth and final. Folk are a lot less likely to stay when they are chosing from those who weren’t their first or even second choice. I could see it plain as day in the way the votes broke.
The first rule of a fight: Show up.
Second rule of a fight: Be the last one standing.
May I direct you to the 2012 Presidential election results?
Bite your tongue, evil one….and to the one snickering…off to the corner with you, young man!!!!
@Cato the Elder
HA!
I am familiar with the history of our founding fathers. They were not religious men. They kept it out.
Oh, I frequently mistake you for TJ – frequently. Maybe he’s channeled through you?
Um…this assertion is not based in any kind of historical fact. The fact is the majority of the founders where overtly devout men, and references to “God” “Creator”, and other names synon, with “God” appear throughout their writtings. But, as it is clear that they went to great lengths to avoid setting up a theocracy. What is also clear is the did not intend to establish a government devoid of religon, rather, they chose to set up one that favored no denomination over another.
Some were, some weren’t.
The founders also allowed for no relgion.
Um….this assertion 🙂 is not wholly accurate, many of the founding fathers, like Jefferson and Washington were Deists. Jefferson especially actually. Believing in a higher power is not the same as a specific G-d. Creator is vague for a reason.
@Elena
Elena,
Deists believed that observation of the natural world was sufficient proof that God exists, and that they didn’t need a church (specifically, the Roman Catholic Church) to tell them that God exists and the Church has His authority. Jefferson believed in the Christian God, he just rejected the authority of a specific church denomination to define God.
BA, History, The Citadel 1993.
Jefferson was a Unitarian.
And a deist. He also described himself as a Christian in private letters and a sect unto himself.
Madison wasn’t too keen on church being any part of govt.
Is it fair to say all were individuals and had their own feelings on this issue?
Quite fair. What is clear is that it wasn’t the most important aspect of the nation they were founding, but the protection of individual rights, granted by God, and not by government was their main focus. The right to assembly and redress of greviances, the right to freedom of worship, the right to keep and bear arms, the right to be secure in our persons and papers (privacy), the right to personal property, etc.
I agree with Mom. Jefferson and Madison. Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. The Kentucky Resolves (Jefferson) and Virginia Resolves (Madison). Our first major national experience with attempted nullification of widely despised federal laws. TJ and Madison may well have enjoyed a good deal of the Richmond 2013 experience
Well they weren’t running around calling those that disagree with them sinners now were they?
I think we are agreeing Steve…..
From all the written I have read on Jefferson he believed in the moral message of Jesus, as way to live ones life. He believed in reason as a guiding principal in addition to science, as opposed to blind faith.
I can follow the traditions of Judaism but still call myself spiritual, align with the tenants of the basic foundation, but not suggest that every element requires strict adherence. I see myself as a spiritual person, one who believes there is a higher power but would never portend the ultimate form of G-d.
Don’t know about the sinner bit, Lyssa. However, some historians have opined that, if word of what Jefferson was doing with those Kentucky Resolves had ever leaked out in that time, he might well have been susceptible to being charged with treason.
“…that every element requires strict adherence.”
Nicely said.