I really needed something to laugh at. Jon Stewart to the rescue.
The Affordable Care Act is the law. It doesn’t have to be negotiated. It passed both houses of Congress, was signed by the President and affirmed by the Supreme Court, or as Stewart puts it, 9 pre-cogs in magic robes.
Rocking Shutdown Eve did everything but rock. It went off with a whimper and a whole lot of pontificating out of some of the tea party ‘republicans’ in the House of Representatives. Their hero was nowhere to be seen or heard. Those who are holding out need to dig out those Constitutions, even if it takes a comic book form and review how a bill becomes a law. President Obama addressed the military and assured them that they and their families would be paid.
The behavior of the tea party ‘republicans’ endangers the GOP, endangers the economy, endangers the country, and hurts the American people. One buffoon suggested on MSNBC that the federal workers should be happy because they get a paid vacation. Meanwhile, who pays their mortgage?
Several people have begun calling Senator Cruz the new speaker of the house because he bullied and directed congress from the Senate. That’s not what *I* call him!!
As an aside, my newly acquired congressman was featured in the Stewart montage. You guessed it, the one making an A-hole of himself. I cannot win.
The world is coming to an end! No wait …. that was supposed to happen for the sequester. The world still seems to be okay.
The Republicans should stop using this unprecedented extortion of the president!!! …. Ugh, no. It turns out this tool has been used by both parties and was successful against Jimmy Carter.
We better end this now, or federal employees will be hurt!! No, they are virtually guaranteed of back pay and their jobs are not in danger, which is more than we can say for many other workers:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/30/us-employers-slash-hours-avoid-obamacare
There is no guarantee that the federal employees will get back pay. Furthermore, if they do get their pay, it will be delayed. Meanwhile, mortgages are due and people need to eat. Cars still need to be filled with gasoline.
No one has ever said that the world was coming to an end. You said yourself it was a bad thing to shut down the government. What might be the end of some people’s world is if these buffoons play the same game over the debt ceiling.
The difference between this shutdown and others that preceded it that there are no appropriations in place for any part of the budget. There is no funding – in years past there were at least some funding in place causing a partial shutdown and not a full shutdown.
I pity the Republicans that are so afraid of losing their seat in Congress and being primary’d by there Tea Party brethren. If they would start doing the right thing for the country the independents would pull them through.
Republicans are going to get 90% of the blame on this – Passing a budget was a campaign issue – the Republicans blocked it from going to conference and now wants demands on the CR. It is just another attempt by the R’s from letting this economy start moving in the right direction. Every time they bring our country to the brink of default it affects all of us – the economy loses momentum, the ratings agencies see the US as being stupid and the markets take a chill, business gets more FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt), stops hiring the GDP takes a hit, unemployment goes up – and we are back to where we were.
The debt ceiling will be the next issue where the R’s will do the same thing and bring the country to a possible default – ask Argentina how well it worked out when they defaulted.
The debt ceiling is far more dangerous, Pat, as bad as this is as a matter of governance. Failure to act on the debt ceiling could cause a serious global economic relapse. If you think your 401k took a hit the last week and that all that nice growth of the last few months was wiped out, wait to see what happens if the Crazy Rs block action on the debt ceiling. Actually, you won’t have to wait very long because the markets will start discounting based on what they did last night.
Actually you make a very good point. I think the Republicans made a tactical error by not passing two CRs: one that funds HHS minus Obamacare and the other that funds everything else. Obama and Reid would probably find it difficult to pass on a bill that funds the rest of the government.
It seems like an obvious strategy which makes me suspicious that Boehner and other Republican leadership are not really playing to win, but are instead just making noise to say they “tried” and failed in the hope that it appeases conservatives.
While I do poke fun at the overblown hysteria regarding a shutdown, I do acknowledge the disruption and inconvenience that this will cause for some people. If the Republican leadership is doing this for political gain rather than to force a change that they believe will improve the economy and people’s lives over the long term, then that would be a different matter altogether. That would change my view completely.
I am not sure that politicians necessarily have the skill set to evaluate health care.
Many of us are also outraged because of the hits our investments have taken. Our investments aren’t fat cat investments. They are what we are supposed to live off of in retirement. Maybe the markets will blow off this stupidity. If they don’t, like august 2011, then prepare to lose a lot of money.
These same trouble makers are also the ones who have made statements about people receiving social security and Medicare like they are charity cases.
Exactly. Let’s get the government out of our healthcare.
As for investments, are you looking to buy? It might be an excellent time to buy some high value stock at a “discounted” rate.
NO, not looking to buy. Looking to maintain. In fact, I have pulled out cash until all these tea party crises have passed.
There is more to government than congress. They just want to get re-elected. There are teams of experts working on health care in the government.
I hate to rely on self-described Republicans in the Congress to trash the economy and markets in order to create investment opportunities for me. Over time, they do far more gratuitous damage to my portfolio than they create opportunities through their reckless ransacking of the markets.
Scout is right. What’s happening now is nothing compared to what will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised. Raising the debt ceiling is not increasing the debt. It’s simply paying the bills for the debt that Congress and the President have already agreed to incur. Not raising the debt ceiling is tantamount to going on a shopping spree using your credit card and then deciding not to pay the credit card bill when it arrives. We all know what that does to our creditworthiness. Defaulting on our debt would have consequences far more catastrophic than does a government shutdown. Think in terms of the U.S. credit rating going down, interest rates rising, greater uncertainty in the capital markets that results in everyone’s investments and retirement savings taking a hit. It’s being driven by people with not an inkling of an idea how capital markets and the economy function. Their “logic” seems to be let’s deal with the long-term Federal debt problem by flying the capital markets and the economy into the side of a mountain now.
I watched the new “Crossfire” on CNN yesterday. It’s good. Van Jones and Newt Gringrich agreed that we start to solve this problem by everyone getting to know each other and spending some face time together. I’ve heard the problem described also as the decline of Bourbon. People of both parties and political philosophies used to fight it out during the day and get together as friends over drinks in the evening. That doesn’t happen anymore. Such amicable relationships result in compromise, which is what the Founding Fathers envisioned as how our system should work. The President shares the blame in this. He can’t lead by ignoring the Republicans and sitting in the Oval Office declaring he won’t negotiate. Both sides need to grow up and take lessons from Ronald Reagan and Tip O’Neill, and Hubert Humphrey and Jesse Helms. Reagan and O’Neill were known for their friendship and respect for each other. Humphrey and Helms although at opposite ends of the political spectrum were chess pals. We need that kind of amicability, negotiation, compromise and mutual respect again.
Thats nice – this will set some people living pay check to paycheck back quite a bit or out completely. They wont survive on “acknowledgement of disruption and inconvenience” but I’m sure our collective feeling of “concern” will ease them through it.
Do you honestly believe they did this out of concern for fellow Americans? That they care about everyone in their constituencies? Do you really and truly believe they care about anyone except themselves?
seems like no one remembers what Boehner promised to get reelected as speaker – http://thehill.com/homenews/house/275295-boehner-tells-gop-hes-done-with-one-on-one-obama-talks – that he will no longer negotiate with Obama.
Paul Rand said about the same thing.
McConnell said his priority was to make Obama a one term President.
Kinda hard to negotiate with people that have other agenda’s and have no intention of negotiating. The R’s have largely backed themselves into the wrong corner on many issues and do not know how to get out of the corner – they know what is right but cannot see how to get there.
These folks in office have to be re-elected in order for them to keep getting a paycheck. Their foremost concern is their own payday. They are not citizen legislators… they are professional politicians and do what they believe is necessary to stay where they are. This goes for both parties. Term limits – term limits – term limits.
@Kelly_3406
They couldn’t. The Senate and President told them that it was their way or the highway. NO deals.
So, since the ACA is more important to the Democrats than funding the gov’t…. let them deal with it. The power of the purse is the only power that the House has.
Since the Republicans will get the blame for any and everything anyway, why NOT shut it down? When you get blamed for everything…one stops caring about it.
Cargo, you really need to start reading a good cross section of mainstream newspapers. You are seriously reading too much far right propaganda.
Victim mentality?
@Moon-howler
“There are teams of experts working on health care in the government.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
If that makes you feel better, keep believing that.
NHI and CDC don’t have experts working there?
The laughter is just ignorant.
The only way to get off of the debt ceiling scam is to stop raising it and actually pay the debts. We keep raising the limit…spending that borrowed money….and then borrow money to pay NEW debts.
But…nooooo…can’t cut spending. Can’t reduce the debt. Can’t do anything sensible.
Not raising the debt limit does NOT make us default. It forces the PRESIDENT to make hard choices. Of course, he’s going to make the choices that makes Americans feel the most pain so that he can blame the GOP….not make good choices for the country. I mean, why should he start making choices like that now when he never has before?
What you suggest is careless. irresponsible an unrealistic.
If you do not pay your debts, that is a default.
According to the US Treasury Department:
Just out of curiosity, Cargo, how do you unfinanced things? These are things that need to be paid.
This has nothing to do with cutting spending. It is obligations already incurred, some from back years ago.
Let’s blame Obama!
@Moon-howler
Raising the debt limit is not “paying our debt.” The debt still gets paid out of current receipts.
As you say…. the debt limit is the total amount authorized to borrow. If you raise the debt limit, one can now borrow MORE. The debt limit states what can be financed. So…. when we hit that limit, stop incurring MORE debt than can be paid.
Besides…the Treasury, for months, showed no increase in outstanding debt. Why is it necessary to raise the limit if the debt is not growing?
Instead, prioritize spending. Cut unnecessary spending and pay the bills that way.
I’m just supporting President Obama. He’s the one that said raising the debt limit was unpatriotic.
By your logic and, it seems, all of Congress except the Tea Party, that the gov’t borrows money….to pay the debt on borrowed money, which they borrow more to pay.
What’s that definition of insanity again?
By the way…I am now “legal.” I applied for ACA.
It’s broken.
The System is down at the moment.
We’re working to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Please try again later.
I tried. Not my fault that I couldn’t get it.
Myths and Facts about the debt limit
http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/Documents/Debt%20Limit%20Myth%20v%20Fact%20FINAL.pdf
http://freebeacon.com/woodward-if-shutdown-or-debt-ceiling-causes-economic-crisis-its-on-the-presidents-head/
Too bad that the President is willing to negotiate with Syria and Iran, but not the GOP.
Not raising the debt ceiling will result in a default, and set in motion the related consequences. That is as much a fact as is that the sun rises in the east and that George Washington was the first President. A default occurs whenever debt service, including interest and principal payments, is not paid in full and timely in accordance with the debt instrument in question. Raising the debt ceiling simply allows the government to pay the debts that the Congress and President have already agreed to incur. It’s no more complicated than that. Anyone, any political party or any faction that ties paying our debts to anything else is irresponsible and is in no way a patriot who believes in the United States of America and what it stands for.
Larry Sabato said it well on CNN last night. If Republicans want to change the law or national policy they should focus on holding a majority in the House, winning the Senate, and winning the White House. All three are possible in 2014 and 2016. If they get the blame for the catastrophic effects of a national debt default they won’t win anything.
FACT:
Legislation to “prioritize” payments would simply represent default by another
name.Suggestions that Congress could somehow evade responsibility
for raising the debt limit bypassing legislation to “prioritize” payments on the national debt above other legal obligations of the United States are simply not true. This would not prevent default, since it would seek to protect only principal and interest payments and not other legal obligations of the United States from non payment. Adopting a policy that payments to investors should take precedence over other U.S. legal obligations would merely be default by another name, since the world would recognize it as a failure by the United States to stand behind its commitments. It would therefore bring about the same catastrophic economic consequences
This is so much circular reasoning. We can’t not raise the debt limit ever then. Just borrow until the debt service becomes the totality of the budget. Not raising the debt ceiling allows one to pay the debts. The other “debts” are merely budget items in programs for the gov’t. Those are not real debts. Entities re-prioritize all the time. Of course the Treasury will back up the standard mantra of the gov’t…..spend spend spend.
I wonder why it was ok for the President to be against raising the debt limit when he was a Senator and not ok now? I wonder…why didn’t the Democrats just either abolish the debt limit or raise it by a few trillion when they were completely in charge? Probably because the Democrats don’t want to give up the weapon of being able to use it. Apparently its only an emergency when republicans do it.
But….. we’ll keep borrowing more money to pay the debt on borrowed money.
No budgets. Just CR’s….. No honesty. Everyone just wants the gov’t to keep pumping out that money….keep that fake stock market rally going. Pretend that we have an economy…..doesn’t matter that we’re hemorrhaging 85 billion per month. Doesn’t matter that the gov’t is lying to you….. keeps getting more intrusive.
Just keep the money train rolling.
fine.
Raise it.
And when it crashes….I’m going to point and laugh.
Personally…. I want the House to come back and implement ObamaCare fully, with all taxes and no waivers. For everyone. I want the business to act accordingly in their best interests. I want the poor poor people working for Congress to feel the pinch. I want the debt ceiling to be abolished. I mean…why have it if its so dangerous? What’s the point of having it? And I want taxes raised on EVERYONE. Everyone gets to pay. They want these programs…they re-elected the worst President since…… oh…. FDR…..let them pay for what they want. No subsidies. If ObamaCare is supposed to help, why do we need MORE tax payer money? It’s supposed to lower costs. Not spread the tax costs to everyone else. We already have that. Too bad that about 30 million people won’t be able to get insurance. Apparently that whole “everyone is covered” was also a lie…but we told you that.
I want the full progressive program enabled. All of it. And then I’ll laugh when people realize how much it costs. Of course, the media will just blame the GOP. Don’t care. They are part of the problem.
just shows ya that Syria and Iran are more negotiable than the GOP
@Cargosquid
Old sound byte.
He didn’t negotiate with either.
Strange you should lump the GOP in with Syria and Iran. The GOP does have a few terrorists in it for sure.
Cargo, you are aware that some of our debt goes back to WWII?
A few wars will keep debt going. Let’s see, have we had any since then????? Oh yea.
That really isn’t circular thinking. Do you understand how devasting to the world economy a USA default would be, not to mention OUR economy?
Talk to not Bernie. Don’t take MY word for it.
@Cargosquid
cargo – this is one reason why it is hard to believe most of what you say. Unless your situation has changed (and if it has, I apologize) but you are already covered by a valid healthcare plan.
Cargo has always said he didn’t have health coverage. I will defend him on that.
Too bad that the President is willing to negotiate with Syria and Iran, but not the GOP.
You guys have been spouting this for a week or two. It’s become one of the latest ditto head talking points. It’s laughing out loud effing hilarious that you don’t see that you’re comparing yourselves to the enemies of our country and proud of it.
If I had been the Senate Leader, I would have had the Senate amend the House’s first offer (defund Obamacare) by sending back a new offer where we would agree to defund Obamacare as long as the House approved a bill that established a Federal single payer healthcare system.
@Pat.Herve
Except that the GOP presented alternatives. The Senate and President refused to even consider it. It’s ok for the PResident to implement a delay or a waiver, but not delay it for the rest of us by one year by law.
Rule by fiat is soooooo American.
Shoot, I sat up until midnight last night, expecting something spectacular to
happen at the stroke of 12. What happened? Nothing, nothing at all. The suits
kept on blabbing.
There could at least have been a dud fireworks device sent up
or something.
@Pat.Herve
I have VA. I earned that by 25 years in the Navy. I have no other health care. I still have to pay for some things at the VA if they are not service connected. If I want to be seen quickly…I have either go to the ER…which I don’t do unless needed….or I go to Patient’s First and pay out of pocket. I am also unemployed. I do not receive unemployment because I am not looking for work.
@BSinVA
That would, at least, been a valid negotiation. I would have liked to see that. It would have been rejected….but I would have liked to see it….and see which Democrat votes for it.
@Censored bybvbl
Well, the President keep treating the GOP as an enemy…so why not?
@Cargosquid
You appear to be in the same boat as my B-I-L who was an army vet (though only for a short stint). He can use the VA but doesn’t have insurance. He lives about 60 miles from a VA hospital but only about 3 from the local one. Guess where he’ll go if he’s in a car wreck or needs an appendectomy? And, because he’ll refuse to pay because he’s unemployed, the citizens of California will be gifted with his bill. That’s why the rest of us want you guys to pony up your share of the cost of insurance.
Actually, he’ll end up at the local…and then, as it was explained to me…he would be transferred and the VA billed.
Perhaps your mileage varies.
You could delay it if you want to and simply pay the $95 fine.
I am tired of hearing about those GOP alternatives. That is such BS. The GOP had 8 years under George Bush to work up something. Where was their plan?
Maybe the Senate and the President (who last time I checked wasn’t part of the legislative branch) didn’t like the alternatives. What were the alternatives? Dying in the street?
@Moon-howler
The GOP had 8 years under George Bush to work up something. Where was their plan?
Maybe they realize that its not the federal gov’t business to be involved. Not everything has to be dreamed up by the government.
The alternative was to delay the implementation for one year. Since the Pres has been delaying it and has been giving waivers…why shouldn’t he do the same for the rest of us?
So there were no alternatives. Didn’t think so.
The rest of us would just put off the inevitable.
Actually the govt. was involved before ACA. Let’s see, Schips, Medicare, Medicaid, CDC, Surgeon General, VA hospitals and centers.
Most people on Medicare love it. Medicaid saves the lives of those without adequate income and protects older Americans when they no longer have assets and have to live in more restrictive care facilities.
Previously granted waivers/postponements were at the margins of the system and have little effect on its overall operations. Moreover, they were not granted in a hostage-taking scenario where some interest group threatened to do violence (literally or figuratively) to the overall operations of government if the waivers weren’t granted. This is no longer about health care. It’s about ensuring that no Member of Congress ever again decides to try to sabotage the overall operations of government in order to get his/her way on some particular legislation that he thinks is sub-optimal. If the Administration were to give in to this here, it will happen repeatedly in the future, including when the next Republican president puts through a major program and the Democrats have a majority in the House. If this stunt is costly enough for those who are behind it, the benefit may be that legislators will go back to legislating.
@Cargosquid
I didn’t realize you had 25 years of service.
How long have you been out?
Do you get anything for health care for being a lifer?
@Scout
I have been thinking all day about how there is little difference in what is happening and actual terrorism. If this behavior is allowed, especially as you described, then the country stands in perpetual peril from enemies from within. Anyone with a burr under his saddle can simply try to disrupt our government.
The banana republicans are disrupting government and attempting to turn our country in to a banana republic. They will not be allowed to prevail. The cost to the nation will be on their heads.
If I owned a condo anywhere near Fort Sumter, I would put it on the market ASAP.
Oops! Sorry… the Fort Sumter comment was mine.
By far my favorite comment from one so concerned –
While much of official Washington on Saturday somberly faced the likelihood of a government shutdown, the most conservative members of the House sported a different expression.
They were smiling.
“We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”
But she didn’t mean the WWII monument.
@Moon-howler
“So there were no alternatives. Didn’t think so.”
When “alternatives” were being spoken of…it was as an alternative to the current House bill. The GOP is willing to delay it for a year instead of funding this disaster and thereby fund the gov’t. The democrats would rather the gov’t shut down.
@Moon-howler
I had 11 years active and the rest in Reserves. I retired in 2008.
I have medical care through the VA….especially since I’m disabled. About 40%. A lot of little things combined, from neck injury, hearing damage, headaches……
Damn, we haven’t even gotten past the shoulders….
I wish I knew how to ask this…where is Moe when I need him…do you have the policy that some people have who retire at 20 years active? I dont know how it all works. I want to say tricare but I am not sure that is correct.
Can you just truck it over to Macguire if you get bronchitis?
@BSinVA
Or you could hold on to it as an investment. Remember what happened at Manassas. The DC muckety mucks thought they were in for a real outting.
You could make some big bucks if they were firing the right way.
@Lyssa
Absolutely. Thanks for posting that quote. I think it says it all.
That sure isn’t what that H-B was telling the vets at the memorial.
Yea she was just out for a stroll. How do you tell when Bachmann is lying?
I wouldn’t know – apparently neither does she.
No she doesn’t. Her lips are moving??????? I know…bad joke.
Our troops will not be paid if the debt ceiling is not raised, among other adverse consequences. Repugs hate our troops
Our troops will not be paid if the debt ceiling is not raised, among other adverse consequences. Repugs hate our troops
@Moon-howler
I have fewer benefits until I hit 60…but yes….I can go to the VA. I might get billed, buy my income is low enough to qualify.
What happens at 60?
Is there actually a policy involved that you can use anywhere?