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The answer remains very unclear. Obviously they know that they can’t block the ACA. Attempting to fund the government piecemeal just won’t work. It’s absurd to try. The question remains, what do they want? Why not pass a clean CR so we can move on. No one, including them, really knows what they want.
Congress-watchers say there are at least 20 republican votes in the house to pass the CR right now. Let’s do it. Holding funding hostage just isn’t the way to do business.
The facts are clear:
1. Numerous polls show that the vast majority of Americans don’t want the government shut down over Obamacare or anything else.
2. A bi-partisan “clean” funding bill was passed by the Senate and sent to the House.
3. A clear majority of the House would pass the Senate bill if they were allowed to vote on it.
There is absolutely no good reason why the democratic process is being undermined by a minority of one party in one part of the legislature. This is not democracy. The extremist conservatives need to be smacked down before they destroy our economy.
24 MoveOn polls show GOP could lose House in wake of shutdown
By Ilya Sheyman. Sunday, October 6 2013
Twenty-four new surveys in GOP-held House districts, commissioned by MoveOn.org and conducted in the wake of the government shutdown, make clear that Republicans could easily lose control of the House if the next election were held today. The surveys challenge conventional wisdom that gerrymandering has put the House out of reach for Democrats and indicate the shutdown has significant electoral implications.
http://front.moveon.org/24-moveon-polls-show-gop-could-lose-house-in-wake-of-shutdown/#.UlIFDecaySO
Repugs could lose their house majority over this shutdown.
I hope so. I am tired of being held hostage by a group of people I think are destroying our country and who do not represent me.
I even have a new tea party congressman who I just inherited in a boundary change.
The tea party violates my value system and my sense of what being an American is.
In my Sunday night stupor I stumbled in on Stossel’s program where he was interviewing a guy from Texas, Benjamin Powell, Texas Tech. The guy was incredible; kept insisting that the sequester and the shut-down of government was the best thing that could happen to the American people. They’ll learn to live with a lot less government, he said. Stossel asked what he thought abt those who go w/o pay. Oh, they’ll get along just fine after a while.
Powell was smiling the whole time. Jerk!
@middleman
The facts are clear.
1) Polls show that the majority of Americans didn’t want Obamacare, but the Democrats forced it down anyway.
2) The Senate would rather shut down the gov’t than delay ObamaCare by one year.
3) The Senate would pass the current House bill if allowed to vote on it.
All the Senate has to do is compromise.
Cargo, those are your opinions. Those are not facts.
Actually Cargo’s statement is every bit as true as Middleman’s above, which is why we are at an impasse. If James Madison were aware of what is going on, he would be smiling, because this is exactly how he intended for the power of the purse to be used.
Middleman is correct that this is not democracy. We have a republic, which was set up to make it difficult for a tyrannical majority from ramroding things like Obamacare down the throats of the minority.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
While it doesn’t stop what has already happened here, perhaps the amendment in this petition could prevent future government shutdowns: https://www.change.org/petitions/united-states-congress-vote-in-favor-of-the-brat-amendment
@Cargosquid
Okay, I’ll bite.
1. A slim majority of Americans aren’t favorable of the ACA, but that includes those who want single-payer, and that is after 3 years of GOP bs on the law like “death panels.”
2. The Senate passed a bi-partisan funding bill. They are absolutely in no way at fault for the shut-down.
3. There are nowhere near enough votes in the Senate to pass the cynical House bills, because the Senate is reflecting the will of the American people.
The power of the purse was never meant to be used by a slim minority of one branch of congress to hold America hostage to their extreme wish list (which is ever-changing, by the way). Obama and the Democrats absolutely have to hold the line to protect our country from being at the mercy of extremists from either party.
The President has now officially barrycaded the governments Amber Alert website: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/
@Kelly_3406
Not to pick but I don’t think opinions can be true or false. You can agree or disagree but Cargo has stated his opinion. Middleman has stated 2 facts and 1 opinion (#3), in my opinion.
I get tired of the democracy vs republic debate. We try to spread democracy around the world, not republic around the world. That R word won’t be able to hold its head up if the extremists don’t calm down.
My opinion – this group is very united in what they don’t want. The test of successful revolutionaries as evidenced by history is to be united on what you do want and how. But that has to follow the tear down immediately. Not happening. Who’s the spokesperson? What and where is the plan?
“I am tired of being held hostage by a group of people I think are destroying our country and who do not represent me. ”
I have voted for divided government in the past. But I’m agreeing more and more with your feelings here. I never voted to watch a bunch of immature children hurt people in the service of undefined, nebulous complaints.
“Who’s the spokesperson?” Ted Cruz and Michelle backman.
“What and where is the plan?” To hurt democrats and frustrate the President, as near as I can tell. At any cost.
What they want to do is to tarnish Obama any way they can – and will destroy anything they have to to do it.
The group has perpetuated myths to try and get the public on their side – http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/sep/24/top-16-myths-about-health-care-law/ – Congress people should know what is true and what the bill tries to do – but our Congress people are not interested in the truth.
Boehner/Cantor/McConnell – they never voted no on any spending bills before, even ones with unfunded mandates – but once Obama was elected they saw the light – and they do not even want to raise the debt limit to pay for the very spending that they voted for themselves.
Most people do like many of the provisions in the law (caps, preexisting conditions, coverage, kids on plan, access, etc). Many of those who talk about being against it really do like these same provisions. I talk to people all the time who say to me – I really hate this Obamacare thing but Johnny is still on my insurance and it helps him right now because his salary is low. Or talk to someone who was raped/cancer survivor/birth defect – who is no longer job locked and can get coverage in other plans.
Boehner said back in January – no more negotiating with Obama – McConnell said the same thing the first time Obama was elected – so who should he negotiate with? It is the GOP who are unmanageable and who are without a leader.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik1bdoufPt0
and if the GOP pushes the debt limit and does not raise it – how will they tell the ss recipients that the check will be delayed for a few days. People depend on this check getting their on time. Or the military contractor supporting our troops.
I will be ashamed of our country if they let it get to that.
@Cargosquid
What do the Republicans or the tea party really want? Realistically. No one will answer that.
I think it is because they don’t know at this point. I feel that they just don’t want to lose face. (my opinion)
I am just disgusted with almost all republicans and I will tell you why. I watched the Medicare D debate on the senate floor. That is was nutty I know. I wanted to understand why the Dems were against expanding benefits. But the blatant hypocrisy is infuriating by the Republicans around ACA is outrageous.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/republican-budget-hypocrisy-health-care-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html
You know the Dems COULD have filibustered, but chose not to. Do you know why? They aren’t mentally insane! They understood that a vote needed to happen. Do you know why? It’s called Democracy. In the end, after two days of debate, not months folks, like ACA, days, Medicare Part D passed, with pharmaceutical lobbyists in the Atrium, with documented bribes abounding, it passed. Not ONE concession to the Dems, not collective bargaining, no trade with Canada for cheaper medication. Nada! Did they hold government hostage later over the debt ceiling? NOPE. Did threaten to allow the US economy to go tits up? Nope.
Why? Why have the Dems NEVER used these crazy tactics like the Republicans? Because love of country supersedes hate for any sitting president. What else can it be? Tell me, what rational person behaves in such a manner.
Here is another favorite of mine. Who remembers ALL the supplemental bills that paid for the Iraq and Afghanistan war? Did Dems shut down government to stop this improper appropriation of funds? Nope? Did they threaten default unless the money for these wars was included in the regular budget process? Nope.
So don’t tell ME about the integrity of the Republican party now. I call bullshit and I am really angry that so many people are suffering because they lost the white house, twice, to an “other”.
@Rick Bentley
I fell asleep before this skit came on. Part of me thinks it is really offensive–especially to John Boehner. As for Michele Bachmann, she deserves it and much more for saying she was happy about the shutdown.
Common-Sense Republicans have to go in and save the party. When a skit such as this one is shown representing the current R party, something is really wrong.
If the Republicans picture themselves as the party of fiscal responsibility, just what the heck do they think they’ve accomplished this past week? Government workers will end up being paid and they’ll go back to playing catch-up with all the undone work we’ve paid for. This will probably be a forced vacation that will be paid by taxpayers – most of whom are sympathetic to the plight of people who have been forced to work with the threat of no pay. And we complain about the Richmond Clown Show! It all pales in comparison.
The fundraisers/businesspeople for the Repubs need to primary all of these Teabagger clowns.
I think what we’re witnessing is a phenomena called “how to create more independents”.
In a recent interview with Bill Clinton, he was remembering the Newt shutdown. He said that Newt told him then that the difference between Democrats and Republicans was that Republicans would do anything to win and Democrats wouldn’t. That interview was played before Newt and he didn’t refute the President’s recollection and even cracked a grin. The Republicans want to win anything, no matter what the cost to our country.
Can you find that interview? I will post it.
That was hilarious Rick! I seriously needed to laugh.
I think that sketch is great and captures the current reality well! The rest of SNL sucked hard but that sketch is perfect.
As much as it pains me to admit it, I enjoyed hearing her sing. I guess I like bubblegum music. Hell, I still love the Backstreet Boys. What can I say?
I feel like I am reading something out of the Twilight Zone (if the internet was invented when the show was in production). The break from reality here is unbelievable.
Both sides have refused to pass a CR that is not to their liking. Both sides are playing hard ball.
So you can dislike the Republican position, but you cannot (fairly) criticize their method when it is the EXACT same method used by the other side. I get that everybody here works for the government or knows someone that works for the government, but at least try to recognize that both sides are playing the same game.
The Republicans in the House have passed bills that would fund the entire government minus the ACA. I get that the Democrats don’t WANT to pass a CR that defunds the ACA. But if opening the government was more important to the D’s than Obamacare, then the government would be fully open by tomorrow. So the D’s are clearly holding government workers hostage to get what they want.
Twilight Zone
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Why should the republicans defund a law? I agree we are in twilight zone but it isn’t the democrats. It is definitely a red twilight zone.
We have come full circle.
Why don’t we defund Medicare D? NCLB? I believe that the democrats are holding the status quo as far as the ACA. They have already agreed to a CR at sequester levels which is a serious compromise.
@Moon-howler
They want that disaster Obamacare gone and spending put under control.
Kelly, you’re in denial about the lack of rationality in evidence.
The House would vote to pass sthe budget and end the shutdown, but the Speaker won’t allow a vote. The shutdown is caused by the Speaker not allowing a vote.
If we allow a majority of a minority, i.e. a minority, veto power over every issue they lost votes on, America will be an even more bezerk and polarized place. That’s not how government has ever worked here. It’s very much the old “don’t negotiate with terrorists” argument. It would be extremely irresponsible of Obama or “the Democrats” to give way to these people.
No Kelly, you are the one living in Bizarro world. ACA is the law, period. don’t like it, live in a country that doesn’t have rule of law.
Beohner refuses to put the CR to a vote. Period. Democrats have promised, even though many abhor the cuts related to sequester, to vote to pass the CR. THAT is the compromise. Enough sane republicans have committed to signing a CR.
What are you referring to Kelly? Exactly when was government shutdown by Dems for demanding legislation be rescinded, specifically Medicare Part D as the best example? When was our last government shutdown? Oh, right, under republican led house with a Democratic President. Stick to facts. Defunding ACA is NOT a Clean resolution, um, BECAUSE the caveat is DEFUNDING ACA. Ergo, not clean.
“They want that disaster Obamacare gone and spending put under control.”
i.e. they want medical costs to continue to rise unconstrained, with no plan for the situation ever to improve, which in fact drives costs and debt up. Because Obama’s name is on the plan.
Lost in all the noise is how much better of we would all be if we can actually improve medical costs. If we could get them down to the rates other developed nations pay. How our debt picture gets so mich better, and our workers become more able to compete. Instead I see a GOP that wants any effort at curbing costs to fail, and wants the status quo where we slide further into debt. I am really seeing the naked lunch at the end of the fork here. I’m becoming increasingly convinced that most Republicans, on some conscious or subconscious level, do want America to fail.
This debt that they rail against – THEY BUILT.
Cargo,
You do realize how silly that sounds right? Beohner was more than happy to vote for Medicare Part D, every single supplemental spending bill, every debt ceiling rise approval for Bush, and tax cuts to everyone.
Talk about out of control spending, Pa-Leez.
Is ACA perfect, no, but the Republicans had NOTHING to offer to curb out of control rising health care costs, nothing. Oh, and FYI, just allowing the open market to trade between states was consistently debunked as a failure.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/selling_insurance_across_state.html
Want to read result by CBO, here is the link.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/66xx/doc6639/hr2355.pdf
I am VERY pleased to report that Congressman Wolf supports a Clean Resolution! Thank G-d for rational republicans!!!!!!
@Elena
Boehner isn’t a Tea Party type. He’s part of the problem.
The nascent Tea Party started when Bush started spending so much. It finally coalesced around the disaster and farce of Obamacare.
The rising cost of health care? Obamacare doesn’t do that either. Whose costs? The government’s? Ours? Why should healthcare be immune to rising costs? EVERYTHING is going up. Of course, some of what drives those costs are the mandates by government.
And since no open market has been allowed…. how has it been debunked as a failure? The CBO? So, its all or nothing?
Why should the Republicans have a plan to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING! about the rising costs of healthcare when a) the media doesn’t accept the free market b) the states refuse to accept the free market c) the fed’l gov’t refuses to accept the free market. It seems to work for everything else….but it won’t work for insurance. Riiight.
Insurance and health care is a product. It should be treated like that.
@Rick Bentley
So what is your idea for reducing health care costs?
Copy Britain’s NIH?
What? It’s so easy to say that X will reduce health care costs…but then the gov’t doesn’t actually reduce the regulations, mandates, and restrictions that help drive those costs. Obamacare is just passing their failures onto the healthy middleclass by forcing them to pay increased premiums.
Tell me…how does that bring down medical costs?
Know what brings down costs? Increase supply. Figure out a way that increases the number of medical entities.
@Cargosquid
Obamacare is just passing their failures onto the healthy middleclass by forcing them to pay increased premiums.
I’m not paying increased premiums and I’m solidly middle class. WTF?
Tim Pawlenty on CNN warns about defaulting on the debt. He says America can’t be seen as a “dine and dash” nation. He says the current situation is getting dangerously close to brinksmanship.
Pawlenty is a good republican. While I don’t agree with him on some issues that I consider important, I respect him and see him as a a future leader who would certainly represent the future GOP.
Too bad his bid for the presidency didn’t get further. His run was derailed by too many special interest republicans, mainly banana republicans, always chasing shiny objects. The would come up with one A-hole after another to be the candidate of the week, leaving decent, common sense candidates eating the dust of fools–fools who would never be elected in a general election.
I am happy to report that Rep. Robb Wittman’s office has told me that he is willing to vote yes on a clean CR. It’s about time. No more reindeer games.
@Rick Bentley
How is that any different from Harry Reid preventing a vote on House CR’s? The Senate did not vote on the original House CR or any of the piece-meal CRs (which are clean).
@BSinVA
You’re one of the few lucky ones. Check out the reports coming from elsewhere.
@Kelly_3406
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly……
Compromise always means doing what the Democrats want. You are not supposed to apply the same standard to the Democrats. The GOP is to be held to the higher standard. Its ALWAYS the GOP’s false.
GOP’s fault…
Edit THEN submit.
Add Congressman Whitman from Virginia to list of congressional members who would vote YES on a continuing resolution, a CLEAN continuing resolution.
@Elena
The rule of law does not imply that funding has to be appropriated for every law. The Constitution specifically granted the People’s Chamber with the authority to de-fund bad laws.
The whining about a “clean CR” is just a talking point. Democratic-controlled Congresses had no problem with linking CRs with other legislation under Presidents Ford, Carter, and Reagan in many of the previous 17 shutdowns. The difference is that those presidents recognized the budget authority of Congress and negotiated compromises with them.
Ronald Reagan, since you bring him up, would not have bargained away his landmark tax cuts bill. President was not going to that with the ACA either.
Cargo,
Why can’t you accept that government plays a role. Auto insurance is the best example of how EVERYONE must pay into the system in order for it to work. If you only bought auto insurance AFTER you wrecked your car, or some other poor schmuck, the insurance industry would charge exponentially more money. Health care is the SAME, only of course, you can’t choose to exist without your body….DUH!
Did you even bother to read the CBO report?
Furthermore, NEVER, EVER have I witnessed Democrats hold the government hostage over the budget or the debt ceiling. Negotiation is one thing, but to bring us to the edge with every intent of allowing the country to fall into an abyss because you stupidly ignorantly believe that government needs to end as we know it today is unadulterated lunacy.
Actually, all insurance works that way. You don’t buy life insurance when you are told you are going to die. You don’t buy health care when you get diagnosed with needing a liver transplant.
Kelly,
I have watched politics a long time also, and never have I seen this behavior out of any previous congress. As many Dems as there that voted against Medicare Part D, or begrudgingly voted for it because it was better than nothing, never was there any talk of shutting down government over this massive new expansion of benefits, not since LBJ as a matter of fact and the creation of such an expensive new program. But suddenly, when the new legislation is borne out of a Democratic President, now suddenly the Repubs are offended. BS.
Face it, Cargo. This is the culmination of the Tea Party movement. And it is vacuous, ill-conceived, and without any pratical effect.
Face it, Cargo. This is in fact the culmination of this Tea Party movement. And it’s entirely vacuous, pointless, intellectually bankrupt. Turns out the Tea Party had nothing to offer America, just a lot of b*tching and moaning.
As Elena points out, it is typically and probably should always be thought of as unpatriotic to THREATEN TO CAUSE ECONOMIC CHAOS IN AMERICA. If that’s what these guys have to offer America, I for one think they should crawl back into their holes.
Totally agree, Rick. I think they should have to turn in their three-cornered hats, fife and drums. They certainly don’t have any claim to patriotism while endeavoring to do things that harm the country economically.
“So what is your idea for reducing health care costs? ”
Well, let’s try Obamacare, since it survived a vote as well as a Supreme Court challenge, and see what happens. If there are things that don’t work, we can change them. I’m pretty confident it’s not going to be the death of Western Civilization.
The status quo, which is what the GOP is and has been fighting for, sucks major balls. In case you haven’t noticed. I’d go so far as to say that only a party of abject morons would seek to defend it.
One fact (I’m the amateur fact-checker again!) being lost here is that the Democrats already compromised on the budget- the Senate bi-partisan budget sent to the House uses the Republican budget amount. The ultra-liberals are not at all happy about that, but the Senate Democrats did it to make it palatable to the GOP.
It would be silly for the Senate to take up the cynical piece-meal funding bills sent from the House- they are designed to make Democrats vote against the government workers and are unserious. They would open veterans memorials and provide some funding for NIH research while keeping poor kids out of head-start and denying part of their food supply, for example. Republicans are doing permanent damage to their brand by allowing extremists to drive the car.
“How is that any different from Harry Reid preventing a vote on House CR’s? ”
You can make that argument. But it’s pretty obvious to most Americans which party wanted a shutdown. If it’s not obvious to you, watch the clip of Paul talking to McConnell. Or just watch Sean Hannity grinning and laughing about it.
We did have – and I think most Americans remember this – a more functional government until the GOP started to tolerate these Tea Party people ranting and raving and going bezerk and pretending that their behavior was connected to reality in some way.
“How is that any different from Harry Reid preventing a vote on House CR’s? ”
You can make that argument. But it’s pretty obvious to most Americans which party wanted a shutdown. If it’s not obvious to you, watch the clip of Paul talking to McConnell. Or just watch Sean Hannity grinning and laughing about it …
We did have – and I think most Americans remember this – a more functional government until the GOP started to tolerate these Tea Party people ranting and raving and going bezerk and pretending that their behavior was connected to reality in some way.