Good for those who have said they will vote YES for a clean CR! Both my congressman, Rob Wittman and Elena’s congressman, Frank Wolf have stated they are now willing to send that clean CR. It only will take 217 votes to reopen the government today. Congressman Bill Young, one of my favorites, has also said yes to the clean CR.
From looking at the math, it appears that John Boehner is simply not being truthful He does have the votes if he adds the republicans noted in the video to the 195 definite democratic yeses,. Boehner, do the math!
This has really gone on too long. Today the VA regional offices will shut down because of additional furloughs. Furthermore, we are only 9 days away from the debt ceiling deadline. The debt ceiling issue absolutely must be resolved. The nation’s economy is at risk. This is not a game of chicken and it cannot be treated like a game.
I would encourage the President to simply bypass congress and do what is necessary to keep our nation afloat. We can’t allow juvenile delinquents to bring this nation to its knees.
I was watching TV when he said that. It’s an obvious lie. In keeping with the lack of integrity or statesmanship well in evidence.
Looking at the video – what is Due: The Math??
Maybe Boehner is talking about the Boehner/Hasert rule that he needs a majority of the majority before any bill come up for a vote or he is confused with his Speakership which could be in jeopardy or he is afraid of the tea party folks to primary him.
I wondered about that. He wouldn’t have the majority of REpublicans voting for something. That isn’t a law, just custom? Furthermore, he said he was ready to abandon that rule a couple of days ago.
He just isn’t counting the 195 votes from democrats.
Personally, I don’t care if they have the vote. Of course, it would let the voters know who the spineless Republicans are.
But ANY bill being voted on should include immediate implementation of ACA with all waivers and delays cancelled. If the voters want ACA…they should get it. ALL of it.
Make it hurt.
Who are we to ignore the precedent set by our oh so concerned President?
Meanwhile, Boehner has been personally involved in declaring the members-only House gymnasium to be “essential”. Apparently some of the Tea Party guys shower there and live in their offices, to save money. And, this shutdown is about nothing if not catering to the Tea Party Republicans. So rest assured, they will be able to swim and play basketball while everyone else suffers. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/08/2748461/members-only-congressional-gyms-deemed-essential-remain-open-during-shutdown/
I would cut that off so fast their heads would spin. I also don’t think they should be able to ‘occupy’ the Capitol or the office buildings. How freaking trashy. If they can’t afford a place to live then they should just not run for office.
To those of us who think you’re a bunch of d-bags, and plan to talk for years going forward about your hypocrisy and unfitness to lead America, thanks for the talking point Mr. Speaker. Makes a nice joke out of your whole public personna and stated position.
@Rick Bentley
That’s ok. Obama can still golf at Andrews AFB while he closed the commissaries.
As for talking about us….that’s ok. You didn’t like us anyway.
I was sympathetic to the idea of ‘shaking up Washington”, and the idea of taking the GOP to the right so that there could be a hair’s worth of difference between the two parties. But things didn’t play out well.
The Tea Party movement became an outlet for rage and bad feelings, wi8th no intellectual basis. And the “leaders” it took on are some of the dumbest mf-ers around – people who couldn’t thrive in any real-world environment.
By the way…why is it OK for Senator Obama to vote against raising the debt limit in an attempt to influence the war in Iraq and to claim that raising the debt limit is irresponsible and unpatriotic?
But now….its a horrible tactic that will destroy America?
We will not default. It is a scare tactic. Our tax revenue pays the debt.
I’m not going to argue that refusing to increase debt is a horrible tactic that will destroy America. I’m always skeptical of claims about how bad life would be if we don’t do such and such abstract financial thing.
I AM going to claim that no way it happens. That this shutdown thing is a huge waste of time being done out of nastiness and angst. That it’s the hallmark of a party with no real ideas that tie to the reality we live in.
I mean Cargo, if this is your (the collective you) best idea on how to deal with transforming America towards the future, it’s not really much of an idea. It’s like watching a child threaten to hold their breath until suffocation if they can’t get their way.
What is Boehnor afraid of? He should take the vote if he is so sure it will not pass. Boehnor is a chicken
@Cargosquid
We will not default. It is a scare tactic. Our tax revenue pays the debt.
So, if we have enough money why would we need to increase the debt limit at all? The fallacy of your statement is that we will default. Servicing the debt is just one item that costs the US money every day and having the US fail to pay bills such as SS, Medicare and Contractors – Will be viewed as a default. What will be the economic impact to our Seniors when those checks are delayed – will it toss us into another recession – probably more severe than 2008.
To me, the point isn’t that we probably won’t default on the debt- it’s that we keep seriously talking about it. In the past, as when Obama voted against raising it, there were clearly enough votes to increase it, and his vote was symbolic. That’s not now the case. This constant threat of default hurts our standing in the world- you can bet the Chinese rulers have a big party every “debt limit increase” season…
It absolutely hurts our world standing.
Rich and powerful people behind the scenes are controlling the masses. It should scare Americans that a few super rich can in essence, shut down the government and have the average Joes not even get it.
Think about the average tea party supporter. How intelligent do you think he is? OK ! Now, after you have determined how smart the average tea party follower is, know that about 50% of their members are dumber than that guy.
Average is a real scary word when you look at it that way.
Good Lord, such ego, arrogance, and faux elitism floating around this blog. One doesn’t know whether to laugh or puke.
“Think about the average tea party supporter. How intelligent do you think he is?…….”
What a uncouth and obnoxious thing to say.
And in the meantime, in the real world, I’m having to show up for work with a sore throat, cough and fever because there’s no authorization for sick leave! I call in sick, I most definitely WON’T get paid.
Not looking for sympathy, just injecting a little realism into this debate. Whatever they’re doing to “make it hurt”, they’re doing it well.
Emma, I hope you are feeling better. I feel sympathy.
Wolverine, we are tired of being held hostage just to have government working. We are tired of worrying about our retirements getting eaten again.
I hope I am obnoxious because I am disgusted with what I am hearing out of some of the republican party. I can’t begin to tell you the frustration I feel. I feel like I am in an alternate universe when I listen to some of these folks. It’s frightening. I am also really tired of losing money.
@Moon-howler
I am just as disgusted by Democrats who are forcing the young and/or healthy to purchase health insurance that has tripled in price compared to pre-Obamacare. It is not hard to be generous with other people’s money. Obama is willing to approve a delay in the health insurance mandate for businesses, but not for individuals. Why should corporations (with lobbyists) get a break, but a middle class 29-year-old with college loans does not. Republicans are just trying to look after the little guy.
Kelly, who is going to pay for that 29 year old if he gets a disease, oh say cancer, or kidney stones, or a brain tumor?
I have not talked to anyone who has found their policy to be more expensive much less tripled. I can’t imagine why you would not encourage anyone to have coverage.
That 29 year old with college debt sure cant afford to get sick and guess what? I don’t feel like paying for it which is what happens now. We all pay for it.
“MOONHOWLINGS
A Place for Civil Debate: A Blog For Grown Ups”
Great idea. Please don’t lose it.
I just returned Sunday from a road trip to Michigan and Ohio. Not once during that trip did I hear a comment or question about the USG shutdown, not even from my own family, who knows I spent my life in federal service. Nor did local TV expend much time on it.
Metro D.C. lives in its own bubble. So many seem to be complaining about being told to stay home for awhile or go to work and not get paid– until later, as always. (Been there. Done that.) Quite frankly, there are a lot of Americans out there beyond our bubble who would give just about anything for a fulltime job with federal-style pay and bennies, shutdowns or no shutdowns. And why is it that federal employees with mucho education suddenly seem unable to understand that you put away a rainy day fund for emergencies and that you live within your financial means. Every financial counselor in this place will tell you that. But, oh no, these very people who spend our federal tax dollars in the trillions cannot go a week personally without acting like a second Great Depression just struck.
You think all employees are middle class with education? That isn’t really how it works. How about all those people who work on the trash trucks that have been told to stay home? Should they just dive in to their rainy day fund? Wolverine I am going tto accuse you of just being too middle class. Many people don’t have the means to just skip paychecks indefinitely without any end in sight.
When will this be over? Will it be over? I see this vision of it being over when my savings and investments are in a small pool circling the drain. I guess I should have prepared better for jerks getting into power.
@Wolverine
I received a newspaper today from my small hometown far away from the National Capital Region. The shutdown and looming debt crisis were not mentioned on the front page. You are right about the NCR bubble.
@Wolverine
Agree 110%! If you can’t go 1 week, 1 month, or even 3 months without pay your a fucking moron. Period. I don’t have much, if any, extra money week-to-week but I’m not a complete moron. If you don’t have at least a few months liquid capital on hand then your a fucking idiot.
“Quite frankly, there are a lot of Americans out there beyond our bubble who would give just about anything for a fulltime job with federal-style pay and bennies, shutdowns or no shutdowns. ”
So why are these people you lionize just sitting on their asses out there instead of moving out here? You say they’d “give about anything”?
And I’m going to say this out loud Wolverine. Anyone who is not talking about what’s going on in DC right now is kind of a moron. It may well be that this description encompasses a lot of Michigan and Ohio.
If you parse and examine what you wrote, you’re basically telling us that the sedentary people of Michigan and Ohio, who depend on federal largesse in as large a proportion as anyone else I presume, and who are too lazy to move to where there are better jobs, and who don’t care about current events, are the salt of the Earth somehow. Sorry you feel that we’re wimps here for being concerned about people we know suffering hardship.
You know, I’ve got a great idea! If you like it better out there, why don’t you go move there! You wouldn’t have to be burdened by all the whining we do out here when over a million people’s jobs are threatened for no tangible reason.
“That 29 year old with college debt sure cant afford to get sick and guess what? I don’t feel like paying for it which is what happens now. We all pay for it.”
I’ve been engaging with a lot of sometimes thoughtful conservatives here and elsewhere (occasionally, out in meat space, i.e. the real world). Inevitably their gripes and rationalizations as to why this shutdown makes sense come down to issues of welfare and entitlements, or health insurance for the poor. NONE OF THOSE ARE THINGS THAT EITHER PARTY IS SEEKING TO CHANGE.
They cannot admit to themselves that Obamacare is not some huge new entitlement. The huge entitlements of Medicaid and Medicare ALREADY EXIST and have for some time.
I am starting to realize that in this Faux News addled age, where everyone is able to create their own virtual bubble and interpret reality according to what they want to believe, conservatism is becoming irrational. It’s becoming like religion. You can’t get its proponents engaged in rational discussion anymore, despite their self-image as rational beings. They just keep spitting out this laundry list of “what’s wrong with the world” and trying to pretend that the GOP has some way to change those things.
Trying to convince a Republican that the sky isn’t falling is increasingly like trying to convince them that their made up God isn’t real. They just can’t be reached. They’re increasingly unable to deal with reality. I really find it sad.
And when their party acts this badly, and they try to justify it, I think F*** Em. I increasingly do not care about their perspective, their rage, or their angst.
If they don’t like the world the way it is, to the point of destructiveness, they can crawl off and die as far as I’m concerned. I’m sick of the negativity towards America. You either love it, or you don’t.
Create your own right-wing reality, fight against everyone and everything, and go to your graves bitching while the world and our country becomes a better and better place to live. Believe what you want. Hope you enjoy the ride. Our nation is so free and prosperious that you have the ability to believe whatever you want. Go for it. Go hoard gold with Glen Beck. Go sit and stew about the war on Christmas or try to “defend marriage” somehow. I just don’t give a s***. Your lack of ability to see what’s real and what’s fake has disgusted me past the point of caring.
I wonder the same thing now that I used to wonder about conservatives back in the Reagan years, when i was a young liberal. I used to wonder, don’t you dumb f*cks ever read history? Can’t you see that our nation prospered greatly when it moved away from your precepts? Can you not see that simple-minded slogans are not the way forward past any problem? Don’t you understand that the government has almost always played some role in growth and betterment?
Why are you guys so unable to process the complexity of reality? Why do you so resent the idea of using government, to some limited degree, to better our path?
And I’m seeing the answer these days to those questions. It’s because most conservatives are motivated primarily by an anal-retentive desire to prevent change and to make the world look more like they thought it did when they were younger. Moreso than by any type of intellectual basis or love for country.
Over 34 hours after Elena and I confirm with our respective congressmen that they will vote yes to a clean CR, it still hasn’t happened.
Rachel Maddow has shown us where the 217 votes are that would make this happen. What is the hold up?
I can only conclude that either Boehner is lying or that Frank Wolf and Rob Wittmann are lying. I strongly suspect the first. Surely Wolf and Wittmann aren’t that deceptive.
@Rick Bentley
My ears have perked up over mention of Glen Beck. Now I am howling. I can see him now, surrounded by bins of food, staving off the great shut down. Can’t you just hear his gold coins clinking while he issues dire warnings about George Soros and Saul Alinksy?
Of course he leaves off the part about who he fleeced to be able to buy those gold coins, which ain’t cheap. I almost miss the old boy. I am sure he is off behind the scenes with his own little cult groupies, dreaming up some hate propaganda against Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson.
What a jerk.
@Rick Bentley
I have always been captivated by those who look back romantically to the 50’s as such a wonderful time in history. It really wasn’t all that wonderful.
Kids had to dive under desks at school to practice air raids for when the commies dropped a nuclear warhead on top of us. Women were subjugated to what their parents said and then to what their husbands told them to do. Birth control was often under the control of the state. God help you if you were black. Your chances of social mobility were slim to none.
Very few women had professional jobs. Very few women really went to college compared to today, where over half the students are women. Our parents trusted the clergy. How many kids were molested? It really isn’t fair to just blame priests. One of the protestant ministers in my home town just loved teenage girls. His down daughter were my age. That didn’t stop him.
Those really weren’t the good old days if you were female, black, Hispanic or Native American. Things weren’t so great if you were a kid in an abusive home either. Have I left off that there was no such thing as spousal rape and that your husband could beat the crap out of you with out much fear of reprisal?
So much for change. It isn’t all good but a lot of it is. And every generation thinks the younger generation is going to hell in a hand basket.
@Moon-howler
by your description I am recalling a Daffy Duck episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fU6VLVbA2A – what did we do before the internet and youtube – answer – life was easier and there was less boredom.
@Rick Bentley
A rational thing that I like to do is check the facts. It turns out that there are procedures in the House to bring bills to a vote without the approval of the Speaker. All it takes is a simple majority. So if the votes are truly there, why hasn’t Pelosi brought it to a vote?
Once again, we see who the real liars are.
@Rick Bentley
Actually my knowledge of history is pretty good. I have had the opportunity to see what oppressive government is really about overseas. Government as a force of good is the exception rather than rule. Our government has remained a force for good precisely because its power is limited. When it does push the limits of those boundaries, it often has support by an overwhelming majority and both parties.
That wasn’t the case here. The Ds had a temporary super majority in the Senate due to backlash against Bush. When the ACA was pushed, the Ds did not allow ANY amendments from Rs. In response, Massachusetts (!) elected a Republican as the 41st vote to defeat Obamacare. Reid used budget reconciliation procedures to skirt normal rules. Since its passage, disapproval has increased from a plurality to a majority. This has always been a measure that was inflicted by one side on the other.
Given its history, the use of a budget process to attack is somewhat ironic, but certainly not a surprise.
“I would encourage the President to simply bypass congress …” Be VERY careful what you wish for! BTW, what exactly is the definition of a dictator these days? Sequester? … so this is the second time the sky is predicted to come falling down around us … hmmmmmm
The sequester is affecting people around the country in very negative ways. In many worlds, their sky is falling. Just because it isn’t felt by you, doesn’t mean all is well. Moreover, the sequester is just beginning. Things will get tougher.
I would hope the President does bypass congress if that is what is needed to avoid default. You will be sitting there going hmmmmm while the rest of us are trying to pick up the pieces. While you are humming, read what some leading economists are saying about national default. If you are still humming after you finish, more power to you.
Medicare and Social Security aren’t “entitlements,” and calling them that is just Orwellian newspeak. By the time most people are able to reap the benefits of those programs, they’ve been paying into the system for some 40-odd years. What happens is they simply start to get their money back from the government.
Obamacare is a different animal. It’s come-one-come-all subsidies, as long as you’re below 55K or some such. If you’re in that category, it’s a true entitlement.
This is the difference between an entitlement for all and a targeted program that is (in theory) self funding aimed at a vulnerable class of citizen. The former is a terrible idea and the latter is a pretty good idea. As it happens, it’s much simpler than that. There’s not much philosophical difference today between republicans and democrats. Sure, the rhetoric is different, and the names and faces of the cronies and protected classes change, but at the end of the day it turns out that forcing your way into a vagina and forcing your way into the wallet of your neighbor are different expressions of exactly the same principle. In this respect the so-called liberal and the so-called conservative are exactly the same. In fact, such labels only have meaning on bumper stickers these days.
What it comes down to is this: you either believe that it’s appropriate for a government (any government) to coerce you into a contractual relationship with a private entity to buy their product, or you do not. If you want to make a vapid argument about how health care is somehow “different,” or the mind-numbingly stupid argument of how it’s “just like” having auto insurance, I could make a number of equally valid arguments based on the same logic that Americans should be forced into purchasing hybrid automobiles or installing solar panels on their homes for the purposes of reducing the units of non-renewable energy consumed per unit of GDP. That’s how I view this fight. One side believes that the government should have unlimited power to tax and incent behavior that promotes their particular idea of the “common good” and the other does not.
I’m not a particular fan of the players involved on the republican side, as many of them in their hearts are fans of unlimited power as long as it serves their purposes. I’m not a fan of the tactics, as I think this was terrible ground to fight on and that they tried to bite off more than they could chew and violated every precept of negotiation 101.
But for all my misgivings about republicans I’m reminded of the line out of Moneyball: do I care if someone gets a hit or walks, as long as they get to first base?
No, I do not.
Cato – the thing you are objecting to went before the Supreme Court. I agree/agreed with you about that point. But it’s done with. We should stop fighting about it at this point. Or at least until there is change on the court – perhaps the decision will be revisited some day.
Meanwhile, the issue of never-ending medical cost hikes, constrained by nothing but the medical companies’ imaginations, continues to drive debt and inability to compete globally. It’s a big thing. It can and should be attacked. So – even though I objected to Obamacare – I hope that it succeeds. i hope that America becomes stronger, not weaker, even though I didn’t get my way.
Kelly, you speak in a reasonable tone despite my stridency and insulting nature. So three cheers for you.
“Government as a force of good is the exception rather than rule. Our government has remained a force for good precisely because its power is limited.”
I agree with the latter part of that sentiment. But why not try to use the force of government to reduce medical costs, to gain parity on cost with the rest of the world? It doesn’t seem like tyranny to me. It seems like a common-sense reaction to the bizarre situation we’re in, where medical costs are invented rather than derived from marketplace activities, because of lobbyist influence in large part.
Why can’t we try it? Is there such value in the status quo that it should be preserved? I think not.
Two points I want to make :
1. if the GOP really believed that this thing would fail, they’d LOVE to see it go into effect. Clearly that’s not what they are afraid of.
2. It’s unheard of to me for a major party to use the threat of intentionally hurting their country as “political leverage”. Please try to think ahead and look at what our country becomes if that is legitimized. Imagine, for example, Nancy Pelosi holding a debt ceiling increase hostage until we all attack global warming together, and give each and every illegal immigrant a get out of jail free card. We can’t enter into a new form of government where the most strident lunatic wins.
Well put, Rick. Good examples. I agree that Kelly’s response was reasonable. I thought of Daniel entering the lion’s den when I read what he wrote.
I have felt like an angry lion since this government closure/debt ceiling business all started. It is so unnecessary.
And learn from history. A few years ago (most of) you guys were fighting against gay marriage – it had to be stopped at any cost, it was going to spell the end of America. Today it’s Obamacare. Good god come back towards some perspective, some touch with what’s real. After Obamacare passes and either succeeds or fails over the coming years, what will be the next threat to our way of life? What silly marginal issue will the GOP manipulate you guys into a frenzy over?
The GOP KNOWS its going to fail.
But when has the gov’t ever voluntarily given up on a program just because its failing. People still think that socialism and communism works if they just do it again harder….and this time THEY’LL be the ones in charge and therefore can make it work.
Again…how is ACA going to keep down medical costs? Not one provision does that. It only forces people to pay more money for the same product, insurance.
“And when their party acts this badly, and they try to justify it, I think F*** Em. I increasingly do not care about their perspective, their rage, or their angst.”
And thus you now understand what we feel about the Democrats because of their lying and underhanded tactics. The petulance shown by the administration reinforces our understanding of how the gov’t would handle our health care. Obamacare was forced through on reconciliation and substitution. The president lies constantly about its “benefits” and various other things. The Democrats not only want the debt limit raised…but they want 1+ trillion dollars added AND have it raised until after the next election.
Your little rant….. great. You got it off your chest. But we see that attitude EVERY DAY. Why should we kowtow to arrogant little people like yourself, who think that everything would be just fine if the “idiots” would just sit down and shut up and do what we want. We see the evidence of what happens when you get what you want. We’ve been in a recession or stagnant since 2008. And yes…..we have been. The only thing that says that we are not is the BLS and they have reconfigured how inflation is figured to make the administration look good. Pelosi/Reid started this when they took over Congress and exacerbated the problems in the housing. Every program that push that over the cliff was supported by the Democrats.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. Ane we are 17 trillion dollars in the hole. And now you want to add MORE programs to it.
I guess Obama is off the hook then since he didn’t take office until 2009. Whew! One less thing to blame him for.
Cargo, did you miss the crash of 2008? It was pretty devastating to me personally, more so to many other people. I ended up feeling lucky when I heard what had happened to lots of people.
Yes, there has been job growth since 2008, after the crash. Just not as much as most of us would like. Economic recovery is often slow after such financial devastation.
Cargo, I just feel that you are very misguided. One characteristic I have noticed is that you always say ‘we’ like it is some sort of club. Is that an example of misery loving company or do you belong to an organization you are speaking for?
“Your little rant….. great. You got it off your chest. But we see that attitude EVERY DAY. Why should we kowtow to arrogant little people like yourself, who think that everything would be just fine if the “idiots” would just sit down and shut up and do what we want.”
Right back atcha, Cargo. It’s your people that can’t tolerate dissent, that now have a pathological need to identify some opposition as “incompetant”, “extreme”, and all the rest of the buzzwords that republicans started sytematically using since 1995.
“We see the evidence of what happens when you get what you want.”
Right back atcha. Responsibility for maintaining and improving the economy falls to Obama, but it was under Republican stewardship that things fell apart – particularly in regards to debt. Time and time again. Where was this outrage then? Republican/conservative outrage seems focused not against any particular idfea or program, but against the idea of the other party being in charge of anything.
We could sit here and argue talking points. But I submit to you that the larger picture is that you’re a tool, living in a constructed fantasy world in which partisan politics make a hill of beans of difference. The team you’re cheering on have at least as much culpability in the things you decry as the Democrats do.
Cargo, you’re a tool. You argue partisan talking points and pretend that it’s impartial thought. The Republican party that you’re defending has at least as much culpability in our debt and stagnant economy as the Democrats do.
You defend the indefensible. If Democrats ever choose to behave as badly as the GOP is doing now, in the service of their prefererred policies, America becomes a much worse place. Boehner could start planting IEDs in American cities and it’d all make sense to you. You’re detached from objective reality.
I heard this same end-of-the-world rhetoric back in 1993 when Clinton got his budget through Congress. It was going to herald in the dawn on socialism, and be the death of us all. In point of fact it laid the groundwork for real debt reduction. Which enabled the GOP to take power and pi** all the money away again. If you really believe that you have a handle on the future, and that nothing good can come from Obamacare, then yeah I think you are an idiot.
@Cargosquid
Again…how is ACA going to keep down medical costs? Not one provision does that. It only forces people to pay more money for the same product, insurance.
with that statement I can tell that you do not know what is in ACA what it and other legislation attempts to do. Any you have no interest in knowing how healthcare in the US is a stealth tax that affects our global competitiveness. In the US we spend much more than any other country per person on healthcare – with no better outcomes – ie, we waste a ton of money.
Have you ever read what is actually in ACA or do you just read the biased blogs?
“The GOP KNOWS its going to fail.”
The GOP doesn’t know its head from its ass. They pursue simplistic solutions time and again, and tend to wreck anything they’re left in charge of, including our economy 2001-2008. They want to believe that the simple set of rules in their heads (trickle-down economics, low taxes) are the be-all and end-all rather than general precepts. They’re intellectually lazy, intellectually vacuous, pretenntious IDIOTS.
@Moon-howler
Yes… I participated in the crash of 2008 by losing my job. That crash was caused by Democrat policies. And there has been no job growth..otherwise the numbers of unemployed would come down in real numbers…not by the unemployment rate which comes down due to people giving up.
And WE, as I’ve explained before…are the people that support my thinking. In general….conservatives/libertarians that seek a more limited government based upon constitutional limitations.
@Pat.Herve
I’ve read what was put out when it passed…of course, tens of thousands of pages of additional regulations have been written. Funny how we can pass bills that a) weren’t read b) not completed.
Please show me how any of the basic premise can be fulfilled. Premiums are going up on millions of people. Millions have lost work. Medicare was robbed to pay for much of Obamacare. The CBO states that it will add trillions to the debt.
Again…whose healthcare costs? Those whose premiums and deductibles just skyrocketed? The government whose CBO revealed trillions in losses? Or big business that is dropping people off the insurance rolls? We can’t compete because of medical costs? Really? Nothing about any of the other idiotic regulations promulgated in the last 30 years to fix problems caused, usually, by Congress?
I haven’t heard from a single real person whose costs skyrocketed. Where are the millions? Where are the millions who supposedly lost work? That was simply political rhetoric. The bill was voluminous because there are 50 states. Each state had to be addressed because of their own state laws.
What on earth will you do when it works?
I lost a big chunk of my retirement. First in the crash of 2008 then again in 2011 when your people decided to play Russian roulette with raising the debt ceiling.
Personally, lads and lassies, I think that most people around here who are whining and moaning about a temporary adversity in their everyday revenue flow ought to be a bit ashamed, seeing as how they live in some of the wealthiest counties in the country where the unemployment rate has been half, at worst, of the national average all during the 2008-2013 economic downturn. Damn that is tough. Right up there with the Rust Belt and South Central LA, I tell you. Try getting a sympathy vote on that one.
Untwist your shorts, guys. Toughen up. See it through, wot, wot, and all that. And please stop wearing those sandwich signboards advertising the end of the world next week. Yeesh!
BTW, the most recent AP-Gfk MRI poll says Obama’s approval rating has fallen to 37 % and his disapproval rating is up to 53%. Well, polls are polls. Who knows? Slate is having an angry mathematical averaging orgy over the AP-Gfk poll and others. Most of those “lazy morons” said rather unkindly by someone here to be sitting on their asses in Michigan and Ohio do not tend to bloviate like we bloggers; but, when asked, they do appear to have ready opinions. What I sense is a bit of the attitude of a plague on all the D.C. players involved in this thing.
This just in, Boehner promises to set fire to national oil reserves if Obamacare not defunded. Details soon.
“Yes… I participated in the crash of 2008 by losing my job. That crash was caused by Democrat policies.”
It was???? Really???? How do you figure that???????
It was started with the policies driving the housing bubble. When the problems were addressed…the Democrats in Congress, like Barney Frank… ignored the problem and doubled down.
Then Pelosi/Reid took over and tripled spending while advocating anti-business policies.
Attempts to rein in Fannie/Freddie were met with ridicule. The problems were obvious as early as 2006.
Then the mysterious withdrawal of billions from the money market account that has not yet been investigated occurred, triggering the run on the markets, nudging them into failure.
This morning I heard that military death benefits were on hold (temporary adversity) and thought of Michelle Bachmans gleeful comments that “this is exactly what we wanted, we’re so happy”. Maybe she should have read it first. Anyone recall Nancy Pelosi telling us just to pass the ACA and then we’ll read it and find out what’s in it.
Both sides are wrong on most points.
Investors.com (Investors’ Business Daily)
10/8/2013: “Liberals Mugged by ObamaCare Reality”
SF Gate (San Francisco Chronicle)
10/9/2013: “Health Insurance Shoppers Suffer Sticker Shock”