Good grief. This man, whose name is Larry Klagman, couldn’t get more offensive if he tried. (Has he paid his back child support payments yet?) Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz also put in an appearance with this gang who were waving American flags, Gadsden flags, and Confederate flags while some of them carried barricades from the WWII memorial to the White House.
Park police had to come out in riot gear to quell the uprising of thugs hell-bent on making their voices heard. Apparently the protestors simply don’t understand the meaning of the word “CLOSED.” There is no funding for the parks and monuments.
Obviously Klagman who is unelectable doesn’t stand for family values, but how can people like Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz, spokespersons for the values crowd, be seen with people who are tearing up government property? I doubt seriously if any WWII veterans were in that crowd. It will be interesting to see what this clean up will cost.
The thugs need to understand that if they don’t like the parks and monuments closed, they need to contact their cult heroes and tell those folks to fund the government without ridiculous strings attached. This is a simple concept. Thugs, there is no free lunch.
Ah yes, the Million Veterans March opening the War Memorials as they view they should not be closed since they are there to honor the dead. At least that is what I heard said on the news.
And it is no suprised the Opportunists showed up, especially Larry Klaymen…Mister Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch. Interesting man he be, considering he is the one who was the lead Justice Department attorney who broke up Ma Bell all those years ago.
Have had mixed feelings about today and the actions of the Veterans: on one hand, I can agree with the point about the Memorials. On the other hand, going in and just tossing the barricades in a pile and occupying the sites just leads to that impression as “thugs” you wrote. At least if moving the barricades, place them in an orderly stacking vs. just tossing.
My largest issue with it is (and my fellow Veterans may agree or disagree) as Veterans, we swore (or affirmed) to uphold the Consitution and the Freedoms within. But as Veterans, we should remember even those Freedoms have limitations….I remember more than one Civil Disturbance Training where we were trained to control crowds/riots. We should be respectful of the law, and those who wear a uniform to enforce it.
Regradless that the closure is absolutely a ridiculous order, as a Veteran I can recall more than one ridiculous order and complied with it after first, as allowed by regulation, pointing out to my superiors in a respectful manner how “Mickey Mouse” it was (that being the nickname for something absolutely stupid in purpose or reason). The closure of the Memorials may be a ridiculous order, but it is one where those who are marching only feed the image of “thugs”.
The same argument can be made for closing the open air parks. Ultimately, it is to protect the parks and memorials. Other sets of thugs come in and graffiti tombstones, kill animals, and destroy. The battlefields honor the dead also. With only a skeleton crew, it is difficult to protect the parks.
If people don’t like memorials closed, then they need to petition their congress man or woman to keep the parks open and protected during government shutdown….or simply fund the government so that it isn’t an issue.
I seriously don’t like the cherry picking about what should close and what should not close. Its all a matter of funding.
It seems logical to me that if the Government is closed, government properties are closed. I guess the physical characteristics of some of them are such that they don’t require much supervision (e.g., the WWII Memorial or the Mall), but who picks up the trash, who makes sure folks get assistance if they fall, who provides directions, etc.? But, given that folks are miffed about this or that facility being closed, why are they not swarming Capitol Hill to have Congress start up the Government? That would make more sense.
Another protest by the whiny old white guys brigade. Just more noise and little constructive action. Little attention paid to anything that they can’t be made to think affects them.
Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz merely follow the cameras.
Speaking of government messing things up, employer-based healthcare can be traced to wage and price controls during WWII.
According to the article linked below (the 5th paragraph from the bottom), companies began to provide health insurance to employees during WWII to get around government wage and price controls. This practice shielded employees from the real cost of healthcare. So just as recent government actions have led to bad outcomes (real estate bubble, exorbitant college tuition rates), spiraling medical costs may also be directly attributable to government actions during WWII.
The interesting thing is that employer-provided healthcare continued even after wage and price controls went away. This suggests that government action can create irreversible, negative responses in the economy.
Do we really think that further government tinkering (i.e. Obamacare) can fix the healthcare problem or will it create an irreversible response with negative consequences? My bet is on the latter, which is why there is urgency among conservatives to kill Obamacare.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303382004579129381775545554.html
Kelly – glad you tumbled on this. You’ve hit on one of my major gripes with the American health care system. You’re exactly right that employers kind of got backed into being the vector for health care because of wartime wage controls. Health care became a non-wage sweetener to attract and retain valuable employees. That’s no way to build a sound national health care system. No other industrialized nation in the world has anything like that. America has essentially fobbed off health care onto the backs of employers. Obamacare perpetuates that system (why not? – anything else would be a lot harder politically), but addresses some of the flaws in the system by creating an avenue for citizens not normally covered by employer plans to gain access to health care. If there were a way to take the burden off the backs of employers, we would be much better served.
So now vets are automatically the “Tea Party” and Thugs.
Funny..no one was attacked. Civil disobedience is an American traditions. “Closing” the memorials takes more manpower and money than just not “manning” them.
And in some cases..the barricades were stacked.
If I hadn’t had to to prior engagements….I would have been there myself. But as it is…my wife was in a car accident last week….she’s fine. The car… totaled.
The President shut those down to make a point. It’s the Chicago way.
Cargo, stop saying that. Regardless of how often you repeat it, it isn’t going to become true. The Chicago way? now that just sounds paranoid. Let’s make it be the Manassas way. That makes about as much sense. How about the Washington way, the New York way?
The president didn’t shut down the monuments. The government is closed. Period. It stands to reason that when the government is closed, that includes lands and structures that are government owned.
At some point, the Republicans are going to have to take ownership of the problem.
Yep…this guy sure looks like a thug to me.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/10/photo-of-the-day-legless-veteran-takes-obama-barricade-to-white-house/
Oops….here’s another: https://twitter.com/luvGodncountry/status/389408603888549890/photo/1
@Cargo, I don’t care how many legs he has…if he was tearing up public property then I would classify him as a thug. Maybe he didn’t move those barricades …maybe he was just giving it a ride.
The memorials on the mall where I saw pictures of protestors weren’t all veterans memorials. Frankly, I don’t think vets have any more right to flagrantly disregard rules than anyone else.
Why are you trying to justify bad behavior?
You want the memorials and parks open? Write and call your congressman to fund the government. There is no free lunch. Those park police in riot gear are working without pay.
To answer your question, no, not all vets are tea party and thugs. My father wouldn’t have had anything to do with either of those groups. Some are, some aren’t. The fact remains, thug is a description of behavior.
Civil disobedience isn’t all its cracked up to be and I would also say that it often is rather pointless.
Vinceremo.
Don’t count on it.
The cop picture is meaningless. He might have been putting the barricade back where it belongs. That’s what everyone should have been doing.
In case you haven’t guessed, I am flipping furious over what I saw at the WWII memorial. People were crawling all over it.
The memorial doesn’t belong to vets. It belongs to the American people and its dedicated to the American people who lived and died during WWII. “Vets” (and I am guessing many people there weren’t) don’t own that memorial any more than anyone else. I resent that it is being used as a political tool. Just one more thing being shat up.
Count on it. You guys lose your cool too quickly — over every little thing. The local ulcer clinics will make a bundle. Moreover, your “leader” is looking more and more like a “top banana,” if you get my gist.
That POS Klagman and his hooligans should have been arrested and prosecuted
@Wolverine
Actually, no, I don’t get your gist. Perhaps you would like to explain it.
You haven’t even come close to seeing me lose my cool.
@Starryflights
As far as I am concerned Sarah Palin, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz should have been arrested also.
I like to go out to Silver Lake. It closes at dusk. The park ranger will come around and tell people its closing time. You are expected to leave.
Now I can leave, and go by the rules of the park, or I can turn into a real A-H and explain to the ranger than I am a PWC citizen and that I can stay at the lake because *I* own that park, not PWC.
I can storm the gates and demand that I be allowed in there. I can demand that I go where I want even though there are restricted areas. I can move cones all around to where I want them, not where they belong.
Or I can write the BOCS and ask them to consider the changes I think need to take place.
Which is being the better citizen?
NBC/Wall Street Journal poll:
Positive views on….
Pres. Obama………47%
Democrats…………39%
Republicans…………24%
Tea Party……………21%
I’d like to see exactly how and by whom these protests were orchestrated – starting with the initial protest by visiting WWII vets. Who contacted the first Congressman or Senator? (Or was it the other way around?) How much Koch money, if any, is behind this? Which group is sending out the emails to their right-wing followers to get them to protest the closing of war memorials but not medical research, expediting VA claims, etc. – work that is truly beneficial as opposed to a staged protest.
“Another protest by the whiny old white guys brigade.” Wow, now that couldn’t pass for racism now could it? Nah, no way ’cause it focused on the wrong skin color. Hey, at least there wasn’t any violence and looting! THAT is a trademark of some OTHER brigades, but then I’ll let you make that determination, and remember not to profile when you do as that wouldn’t be PC.
No, SA, that isn’t racism. sigh. Wrong skin color?
There wasn’t looting? How about massive vandalism?
I would think that if there is this much anger from the right, the House Rs would be terrified at having lost this group that one would usually associate with their “base”. If these folks are upset at Congress, is there anyone left who thinks that the House Rs have not harmed the country grievously? Klagman used to be associated with the “right” end of the spectrum. Palin also. It appears that even Cruz has jumped ship to take to the streets in protest against the House actions.
@Second Alamo
Just for you from a WaPo article:
Later, some protesters carried metal barricades that look like bicycle racks from the memorial to the White House and stacked them up outside the gates, confronting police in riot gear. Some protesters carried signs reading “Impeach Obama.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dc-crowd-pushes-through-barriers-makes-way-to-world-war-ii-memorial-closed-under-shutdown/2013/10/13/239c2858-341f-11e3-89db-8002ba99b894_story.html
Were they committing theft of government property while moving those barriers? Or is that okay because they’re a bunch of old white guys?
BTW, I’m an old white woman so I don’t know that you could call me racist against whites since I’ve been one all my life – just that as an art major, I can do a fairly good visual summary.
I still don’t understand why you are okay with a rally of illegal immigrants on the mall with associated costs of clean up, but not okay with veterans having access to memorials dedicated to their fallen comrades in arms. Is it because government bureaucrats said no? I liken this to the IRS making it more difficult for conservative groups to get non-profit status than liberal groups. The government cannot show favoritism.
Was I OK with it? I don’t recall being OK with it.
At least they had a point and aimed it at the right branch of government. The immigrants have been trying to get immigration laws changed for over a decade. You don’t know that they were illegal immigrants. Fortunately, no one was there checking status. But hell, if they speak Spanish, they must be illegal, it sounds like.
You know, if a bunch of WWII vets went in there, not escorted by politicians, I would probably be ok with it. You and I both know that isn’t going to happen. In the first place, most WWII vets have better manners.
It’s the thuggery that bothers me. I saw people standing on top of the monuments. I saw people removing government property. They weren’t WWII aged people. They marched to the White House which means simply that they don’t understand who really caused the problem. They wanted the parks and monuments opened. WAAAHHHHHH. I want them open too, along with the rest of the government. REally, what was their point other than they hate the President?
This guy’s speech is consistent with what I’ve been saying/noticing. He doesn’t love America, nor do the people around him. They are within their right to free speech, but should be shunned.
The real racism shines through brightly. Since they can’t call him the N word, choose the next best insult, he’s a dreaded terrorist anti American Quran reading Muslim!
What IS the solution to our health care crisis Kelly? If not ACA, then what?
@Moon-howler
So, I’m sure that you will now put put a post vilifying those thugs that got arrested during the illegal alien protest, right? Because, no one at the Vets march did anything that got them arrested, but they did at the illegal alien march.
And no…only PARTS of the gov’t is shut down and how those parts are shut down are determined by the executive branch. Memorials have never been barricaded during previous shut downs. The President is in charge of the Executive branch.
Its not so much that they want them open. Its that they want the executive branch to stop penalizing people and spending even MORE money to disrupt people. There was no need to barricade anything. And as long as the Senate and President refuse to negotiate….its their fault. Period.
@Elena
Who…besides the gov’t, has declared that we have a health care crisis. 85% of people liked their medical insurance.
Where are you getting those stats from? 85% of the American people don’t have health care. Let’s apply some intellectual honesty here.
@Censored bybvbl
It’s called popular support. It was organized by one website, basically saying “Show up at 9 am at the WWII memorial. We’re going to protest.” The rest was completely self-organizing. Unlike Democrats…we don’t need top down organizing.
Too bad they chose to desecrate my favorite memorial. I saw those bad feet standing where they shouldn’t have been standing. I don’t like vandalism. Perhaps a letter to their congressman or woman might have been a better way to handle things.
I am more concerned over people not getting a pay check than I am about a bunch of vets (and no, I am pretty sure everyone there wasn’t a vet) not getting to walk as close as they want to a memorial. That really falls into the world of grow up.
I want to go down the skyline drive. I am missing the leaves. I don’t have to act like an anarchist over it though. There are people out there with needs far greater than mine.
The protestors left a lot of crap lying all over the place. They probably damaged memorials. Living proof of why those memorials need to be shut down when not fully staffed.
I am extremely offended over what I saw.
Then, another local blogger is sending out a clarion call for sedition. Real mature there also, especially with the unhinged that read that blog.
@Cargosquid
You can’t get much more top-down than the Koch brothers and Dick Armey. There may have been a shake-up since it’s inception, but the Tea Party didn’t magically materialize.
So there was a clarion call…albeit by website instead of trumpet.
I think there were dog whistles involved also. Just a hunch.
Maybe its a stage. I went through a rebellious stage over choice. I outgrew it. I didn’t change my beliefs but I don’t feel the need to let my little anarchist out once a month for a good show of ‘screw you’ any longer.
What he means is that 85% of America was covered, including many by virtue of poverty, so he presumes that they like many on the right perceive life as a zero-sum game and want the other 15% to remain uncovered.
By that logic, we could save a lot of money if we take America down to 51% covered. I’m surprised that Romney didn’t suggest this as part of his “we are the noble 53%” Presidential campaign.
@Cargosquid
So you think, maybe, that Palin and Cruz read this particular web site: “Show up at 9 am …”
and Palin immediately boarded a plane from Alaska to join in?
Cruz, I assume was already in Washington.
Cargo,
Clearly, you are operating in world with puppies and candy for all. Have you totally ignored the plight of people who don’t have health care? Have you not read ALL the objective facts regarding the unsustainability of our health care system in relation to our GDP? Have you missed the personal story I told? Do you know anyone with a chronic illness who has attempted to get private health insurance?
good one Censored!!!!
He is spewing all of the right words to get the tea party going – birther, he is a muslim, terrorist, etc. If the GOP leaders were really leaders they would correct the people – but alas they would be losing their base if they did that.
Here is a tea party supporter with an interesting take on the shutdown – http://mediamatters.org/mobile/blog/2013/10/03/foxs-varney-on-furloughed-federal-employees-i-w/196261
The biggest lie of all is that the tea party is a grass roots organization. It is largely funded by a few rich ole folks like the Koch birthers and run by long time Republican operatives like Dick Armey and others.
Stuart Varney is living off the backs of the American people. Isn’t he a brit? Oh crud, he got his citizenship papers. It looks like we will just let anyone in these days, doesn’t it. He doesn’t like to pay taxes for federal employees? Perhaps we can help him fin his way home. To England.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if Social Security checks aren’t paid and Medicare doesn’t pitch in. Most of the Teabaggers will be howling for sure and protesting against their own self-interest. That’s nothing new – the fact that you can get financially middle and lower class Americans to vote against their self-interest by feeding them a few inane bumper sticker slogans and finding an enemy for them to concentrate on as opposed to actually finding solutions to their problems. Just give ’em God, guns, gays, and gynecology and they’re set to go.
A nice footnote to that Mediamatters article would be the inclusion of Varney’s salary.
Some poor Fed still has to guard and clean up the monument grounds. And right now, they’re still doing it for free.
If the Tea Party wants to rally ’round our veterans and wave their flags, then they should be pushing for a way to pay for two unfunded wars. Then we might have the money that will allow our veterans access to better healthcare and services than they are now receiving. That’s waving the flag for them, not making some infantile show in front of Feds who are just doing their damned, unpaid jobs.
I’m sick of the Tea Party. I don’t even recognize the Republican Party anymore. I’m still far from left wing or even Democrat. It’s all one big race to the bottom now, on both sides.
Standing ovation for Emma’s first 2 paragraphs. I will clap for most of the third paragraph.
I am tired of them also, Emma.
This pity party in full swing yet? Talk about losing one’s cool. Something written here about those vets at the protest: “…thugs hell bent on making their voices heard.” Unbelievable. Sounds like something George III might have said in 1776.
And Censored continues an utter fascination with teabagging.
The pity party was yesterday, on the mall, with errant children who weren’t getting immediate need fulfillment.
I call people who tear up things and who tear down barricades “thugs.” What do you call them?
I understand the need to act out. Most of us have outgrown it.
Moon, I’ve already commented on the “top banana” in a “banana republic.” Having seen many of those very up close and personal, I would say Washington is starting to smell just a tad familiar in that regard. A Park Service employee admits that they were told to make it hurt for the rest of us? The scenic overlooks on highways outside of the parks closed so people couldn’t even see Mount Rushmore or Gettysburg from a distance? Foreign visitors kept locked up in national park hotels until they felt like they were under arrest? Or not allowed to get off the bus to take a pee until they were clear of the park. Disgusting performance by your “leader.”
When it comes to government shutdowns, Bill Clinton was a sheer genius compared to the current occupant of the White House. And I don’t even like Bill Clinton.
“If the Tea Party wants to rally ’round our veterans and wave their flags, then they should be pushing for a way to pay for two unfunded wars.”
No, the wars were necessary. It’s the idea of paying for medical care here IN AMERICA that’s beyond the pale. Including for wounded veterans.
“A Park Service employee admits that they were told to make it hurt for the rest of us?”
One anonymous employee said that, and you take it as news?
Very unsubstantiated. There will always be disgruntled employees and there will always be people who make up anonymous quotes.
More “banana republic” crap out of this administration. Good article in Forbes on the views of IT experts in and out of government who believe the ACA website was set up deliberately to cause the problems beng experienced by insurance policy seekers. They posit that the exchange website was set up to keep users from being able to shop the real cost of various policy choices BEFORE getting hooked into the system by providing personal financial and medical data and being judged eligible or ineligible for the subsidy for those with very low incomes. Typical for these fakers in the WH.
@Wolverine
‘Actually I haven’t heard you on the subject of top bananas. It must have been on some other blog. It”s probably the better part of valor not to say it.
I am waiting for some of the Republican leaders to denounce what went on at the mall yesterday. I am waiting for people who claim to be tea party to speak to the vandalism.
I won’t hold my breath. I will just continue to read the polls.
I mean what does it take to realize you don’t have the majority of the American people with you?
and the NPS shutdown the parks (yosemite, Yellowstone, etc) back in 1995 – what is the difference – If I were responsible for standing on principal and shutting down the government – I would be standing up for it and owning it. The R’s are not owning any of this as every American sees Congress as a failure to even let it get to this – burning the midnight oil to every fiscal issue and letting it become a crisis. And 1995 was not a full shutdown as there were appropriations that had already been approved.
If one does not like the term teabagging it should talk to fox as they were promoting the teabag moniker for quite a while – even bringing and displaying the tea bags on set.
I love the national parks. I contribute to them regularly. I think they define what is exceptional about America–we have been blessed with natural resources.
The government is closed. It hasn’t been funded. The parks should be closed and barricaded to send a strong message–CLOSED. There is only a skeleton crew. Tourists aren’t all friends of the parks. They have been known to damage the flora and fauna and to deface the property.
As much as I love the parks, I am willing for them to stay closed until the govt. is funded and the parks can be protected.
Maybe it doesn’t seem apparent on the mall but some of the huge western parks really need to protect the parks, the animals, the plants and the tourists.
Think about Yellowstone, Olympic, or Glacier. Start with the idea that many tourists are stupid. Let your imagination flow.
A skeleton crew just wont take care of things. No money, no funding, no pay for employees.
@Wolverine
You’re just upset because your beloved Teabaggers didn’t have the smarts to check Urban Dictionary before they hugged the label. It wasn’t your loathed left that hung teabags from their hats or urged other to “teabag Congress”. That’s on you guys. Own it.
@Wolverine
Wolverine – the Insurance Exchanges ask for no medical information and no medical information needs to be provided – so what you are reading is not credible..
Here is Doocy holding up his tea bag – too bad I cannot find the clip – http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x1OUpoDXKo4/T5lL1A7f_rI/AAAAAAAAqOU/ZscGkUMCoKk/s400/SteveDoocyHoldingTeabag.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bildungblog.blogspot.com/2012_04_22_archive.html&h=325&w=480&sz=113&tbnid=q_wGPkmJ9YUQzM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=133&zoom=1&usg=__1TSl1-wMDNBysA1C4pb2FhkzFu4=&docid=Rqub6qrcM-RFeM&sa=X&ei=Zm9cUtWbK7Sz4AOP5IDADw&ved=0CDYQ9QEwAQ
or this one – from a tea party gathering – http://washingtonindependent.com/31868/scenes-from-the-new-american-tea-party
and of course the buttons – http://washingtonindependent.com/67191/the-slur-that-must-not-be-named
http://teabagcongress.com
wolverine,
Conspiracy theories make one sound incoherent and untrustworthy.