Gainesville District Supervisor Peter Candland held a town hall Thursday night at Alvey Elementary School in Haymarket to speak to area residents about what he said is the need to “act right away” to provide more funds to the county school board to cut class sizes, which are now at their maximum capacity, he said. The number of students in classrooms is larger than those of schools in neighboring Loudoun and Fairfax counties, according to a Washington Area Board of Education report.
Candland advocates raising the amount of money the School Board automatically gets from the county in an annual budget transfer, which is currently 57.23% of the county budget, to allow the Board to hire additional teachers and to pay them salaries comparable to what educators earn in surrounding counties.
Elected leaders will begin working on the FY 2015 county budget early next year. During the last year’s budget process, the automatic transfer from the county government to the schools was increased about 1% in FY 2014. At the same time, the county schools’ budget rose 2.8% over the previous year to nearly $1 billion.
The average salary for a teacher in Prince William County is $58,893, while teachers in Manassas make an average of $60,893, an average of $64,813 in Fairfax County. Regionally, teachers in Montgomery County, Md. top the average teacher salary list with $74,855 per year, according to a WABE report.
Candland said that class sizes in Prince William County are now the highest of all the public schools in Virginia. He added studies show that large classes with more than 30 students per teacher can create a number of problems, including teacher attrition, lower SAT scores, and more classroom time being used for disciplining students.
Candland said the blame for overcrowded classrooms must be shared by the Board of County Supervisors and the School Board, noting the Board of Supervisors is guilty of not requiring developers to pay higher proffers to cover the increase in demand for county services, including schools, that occur when new developments are built. And, he faulted the county’s School Board for not wisely prioritizing spending of the money in its budget, citing the proposed swimming pool at the soon-to-be-built 12th high school as an example of allocating money for something “nice” instead of “what is needed.”
Absolutely the BOCS needs to increase funding to the School Board. It has needed to increase funding for at least a decade, probably several decades. However, Mr. Candland only tells part of the story. The fault isn’t in swimming pools and priorities. The swimming pool hasn’t been built, much less billed. The problem is that the BOCS always wants to go on the cheap. They want that low tax rate so Corey Stewart or some other politician can brag that taxes haven’t been raised, or that Prince William County has the lowest tax rate in the area. You get what you pay for.
Prince William County Schools has the lowest per pupil rate in the area also. While other Northern Virginia jurisdictions are operating around $12,000-$14,000 per pupil, Prince William County Schools hovers around the $10,000 mark. This phenomena is not the fault of the School Board. It is the fault of the BOCS. They need to ratchet that tax rate up to a sustainable level. Pure and simple.
Until Pete Candland is willing to admit that the tax rate is simply too low to sustain the School Board budget, he and Corey Stewart are pretty much the same entity. Simply ordering the SB to prioritize is just utter and total BS. They have been “prioritizing” for years. The bottom line is, they (the SB) don’t get enough money to get the job done. One only has to look north to Fairfax County to see the financial bind that county is in.
The BOCS and the public have very little working knowledge of what is really needed to fulfill all the unfunded mandates and programs that are required by federal and state laws. Yet most parents and politicians think they are experts. They aren’t. None of us is an expert.
Some of those same “experts” want bare bones. Bare bones in education and buildings doesn’t cut it either. You can’t throw up cinder block buildings and slap a coat of paint on them any longer. You can’t have administrative buildings operating out of World War II vintage Quonset huts.
How many people have bitched and complained about the “Taj Mahal” better known as the Kelly Leadership Center, where much of central office is located? I have heard it from all sorts of people, but not the people who had to walk a city block just to go to the bathroom at Independent Hill. So what do you do if you are the second largest county in the State of Virginia? Do you invite guests in to a WWII vintage Quonset hut to do business or do you have a modern building that is representative of a “world class education?” If we don’t believe it, folks, no one else will.
The facilities at Independent Hill were unacceptable for doing business. There were no bathroom facilities, the heating and cooling were inadequate, and the county had simply outgrown the facility. Yet if one listens to the public, it would seem that the county was squandering every last tax dollar. Bullcrap. The new building is portable and adjustable to accommodate several large meetings at a time or a host of smaller meetings. There is adequate room for personnel as well as guests. Most importantly, there is room for growth. Some ‘business’ is still housed at the Independent Hill facility.
The swimming pool is being cast out as the epitome of squandering and waste. This pool is the quintessential red herring. It also hasn’t been approved, much less built. The debt service on such a structure would be about a million a year if opponents are to be believed. Those who oppose it would have some other challenge even if class size were right where it should be. Repeat after me…class size is too high because for over a decade the tax rate has not been set high enough to sustain a school system the size of Prince William County. There are no other causes for this phenomena.
Pete Candland needs to address the tax rate issue. So will the other supervisors. Yes, there is a revenue problem. Admission of that fact is going to be what sets Candland apart from Corey Stewart. Nothing else. To imply otherwise is just a shell game of moving inadequate funding around. Raising a tax rate won’t be popular. It never is. However, its going to take a supervisor with some guts and nads to admit the truth and to demand what is needed from its tax base–who in this case happen to be the tax payers. Give the school system a larger slice of pie and a slice that has more apples in it to start with. Increasing the tax rate to bring in more revenue and increasing the percent of money given to the school board is the only way to fix the teachers’ salaries and the ridiculously high number of kids per class. Time to bite the bullet, supervisors. Time to address the truth.
Amen. Compare the tax bill in PW vs the tax bill in Fairfax, Arlington, Alexandria….you’ll see why we have problems.
Cheaper isn’t always better.
Another issue is with the approval of all the housing developments – the houses get built and the schools and roads come after the people have moved in and created the overcrowding. Just look at the Linton Hall Road corridor – it took years for the road to be widened. What will the three large (Stone Haven, ? and ? – I forget their names) proposed housing developments do to our traffic and roads? Where are all these people coming from?
They will cause the worst traffic jam in the world.
Actually, they already have. Just thinking about getting through Gainesville makes me break out in a cold sweat.
The attack on Mike May is detestable.
Is there any low that the “sheriff” (HA!) won’t seek to ridicule and demean? Will he work his way through the entire board until he gets to the one hero he worships?
As we get closer to the election of 2015, which supervisor will get to “own” credit for the Sheriff?
Someone might want to think about that one. Will there be more lying and denying?
The people in PWC aren’t stupid. Some things are very obvious and yes, people “in the know” do talk.
That one is going to be coming in with a big price tag.
I think Pat is on the right track also–too long we have allowed more and more residential building, which requires large amounts of infrastructure (roads, schools, fire & rescue, water, sewage, power, etc) all at a cost and the cost has not kept up with the requirement; i.e., increased taxes. In addition, we have very little in the way of an industrial base because we don’t have the infrastructure to support it. While I agree that the school system needs more funds, to allow them unaccountable access to funding is a fool’s game. The BOCS must be ACTIVELY involved in the budgeting process for the school system. But as you have noted, more pie and thus more apples are needed. How much will homeowners take? Probably not much without someone being more accountable as to how those funds are utilized.
George, why is there an elected school board?
Are those elected officials too stupid to do budgeting? There is a superintendent hired with a rather large staff to evaluate the needs of the county school system and to prepare said budget.
Why is are those on the BOCS superior to the elected School Board whose job it is to know the business and needs of the school?
The Virginia Constitution provides for the BOCS to appropriate the money for the school board to use for the purpose of educating youngsters. The BOCS approves an overall budget. It is not the job of the BOCS to micro-manage the school board. That is one reason we got away from appointed school boards in this state. It provides a little distance, if you get my drift.
I haven’t always thought that the BOCS did such a hot job at taking care of their own finances. The school board, on the other hand, has always managed to juggle and scrape and somehow keep the school system running. They have learned to make chicken salad out of what is often chicken you know what. I think the SB has been more fiscally responsible than the BOCS some years.
I don’t know if this applies or not Moon. Just saying’…
Virginia Code, § 22.1-89. Management of funds.
Each school board shall manage and control the funds made available to the school board for public schools and may incur costs and expenses. If funds are appropriated to the school board by major classification as provided in § 22.1-94, no funds shall be expended by the school board except in accordance with such classifications without the consent of the governing body appropriating the funds.
Well, that isn’t how the school board gets the money. They get an overall approval. Even if they are approved by major classification, the BOCS has no real control. Its more of an accounting device.
The SB directs the superintendent, who directs his staff. They bring a budget back to the SB for approval. Then it goes to the BOCS.
I fail to see where the school board has been fiscally irresponsible. That’s all Sheriff kool aid. He is trying to promote his candidate obviously. It’s all political.
The BOCS, on the other hand, has gone on the cheap for years, probably since the 80’s. I actually think that the school board has done a very good job of keeping body and soul together considering the unfettered, runaway building that has gone on in the county.
I am not arguing that the schools don’t need more money but I do think there need to be better oversight. To think of building a $12 million swimming pool with an annual maintenance cost of $1 to $2 million seems ludicrous when we have such severe overcrowding and underpaid teachers and staff. Perhaps it is time for the School Board and the BOCS/County Staff to be forced into Zero-based budgeting.
Have you checked the price of football complexes lately?
The million dollars was for debt service. You can make pools pay for themselves. Regardless, no one has shown me that the school board has been fiscally irresponsible.
Just who is supposed to oversee them? Surely not the BOCS. LOL
As for zero based budgeting, that’s a Candland/Sheriff/tea party buzz word of the year. Why start afresh every year, reinventing the wheel each and every time. Schools are the least changing entities in the world. You have x number of kids and you need to put them in y buildings with z teachers.
The bottom line is, the BOCS not only needs to raise the tax rate to a sustainable level for the schools, it needs to give them a bigger allocation. It would help to slow down the development also and make the developers pay for more. But those last 2 items aren’t going to amount to a hill of beans at this point as far as fixing the immediate problem.
The school money cannot come out of county operations. They are already shorted from back when illegal immigration was the buzz word of the year. You have 1 person doing the job of 2 or 3 still. Check with the county about what software they use for their accounting. I believe last time I asked it was Excel.
Zero based budgeting has been around long before any of the folks mentioned. And the formula is not as simple as, “x number of kids and you need to put them in y buildings with z teachers.” And you know better than that.
As to oversight-perhaps an independent auditor as a start.
Agree about slowing residential development and increasing and enforcing proffers. A broader industrial base would help but must have infrastructure to support it and not offer huge tax incentives without some benefit to county coffers.
How much of the county pie is enough for schools?
Zero based budgeting annually against a billion dollars is a bit naive and not really necessary. The hue and cry has been because of reserves and balances that are projected. All pretty necessary to look out for a citizenry of over 400k in a responsible way.
@Moon-howler
Sorry Moon but I must disagree on several points. First, the football field as the gymnasium and track are mandated by the State Board of Education, no getting around those. There is no similar requirement however for a pool.
Second, pools do not generally pay for themselves if they are not available on a near 24/7 basis to the paying public. Its quite easy to demonstrate that public access to a school owned and operated pool complex would be limited at best. Similarly, the experience of Arlington County (as well as numerous other jurisdictions nationwide) demonstrates that at best one can hope to recover roughly 60% of the operational costs alone. Consider that Arlington three pools are managed by a single administrative unit and despite being able to thus distribute the administrative cost across three complexes and take advantage of the cost efficiencies of operating three pools vs. one, they still can’t recover even 60% of the operational costs. At the end of the day PWC should probably look to Stafford which builds schools of similar scale on a much smaller budget and has the county government build the recreational facilities, all while maintaining a smaller per capita revenue stream.
I will also have to disagree as to the degree of fiscal responsibility exercised by the School Board, not so much the current one as the three previous. In order to be considered fiscally responsible, one has to manage the spending of staff, that hasn’t been done in decades as the senior administration has largely been given carte blanche to determine and fund their (not the School Board’s) priorities. One need look no further than the submarine approach the Administration has taken with regard to the pool and the 12th high school.
With regard to zero-based budgeting, is it the final answer, absolutely not but it is the best manner available to get to the answer. It’s more than a “Tea Party” buzz word and I know you’re smarter than that. It’s not a matter of reinventing the wheel but rather justifying the continued existence of programs and line items by an analysis of actual vs. budget allocaton over a historic period. Some programs simply outlive their usefulness or as a result of any number of factors require less and yes sometimes more funding.
At one point in time, the schools may have been “the least changing entities in the world”, that is no longer the case given the emergence of technology and the exponentially larger intervention by the State and Feds at the local level.
Does the BOCS need to raise the tax rate to a sustainable level for the schools, although it pains me to say it the answer is probably yes. That being said, it would be irresponsible to simply raise the tax rate and not determine at the same time what efficiencies can be achieved to lessen the pain. Mr. Harris is correct in his analysis of zero-based budgeting (sheesh, I said something somewhat complementary of him) and as usual Lyssa is covered for staff and the status quo. Yes dear some of the misplaced hue and cry is about reserves and projected balances but a large part is about an inefficient and top-heavy bureaucracy both at the County and School level that has done little in recent years to justify large portions of their budgets. You can’t go and ask the taxpayers for more money until you can justify your current expenditures, identify the specific areas of shortfall and provide some accountability for budget.
Sermon over.
I don’t think the board is really looking at what they are given. They see what they want. That’s status quo. And staff is told what to say. Where does it run differently?
Probably no where.
@Lyssa
So it would appear that we agree on at least some things. You are correct that half of the current School Board and all of many previous Boards don’t really look at what they are given and that is one of the many reasons the schools are in the position they are. Fortunately half of the current Board not only look carefully at what they are given but actually have the temerity to question staff. You are also correct in that staff is told what to say, often while biting their tongues, and by whom, Dr. Walts and his minions, that is the true status quo and what must be changed.
Oh PUH-leez….so now we are going to sic the BOCS on the school board. 🙄 Now that’s the fox guarding the hen house.
I don’t believe Lyssa was referring to the school board.
What I have seen is a couple of the snake school board members stabbing staff in the back.
I can die now? Where have you seen this work with elected officials? It’s easy to opine from the outside.
I’ve been on the inside at the Federal and local level and not only seen it work but made it work. Must be my Type-A personality and low tolerance for bureaucratic BS.
I’ve found many of my co-workers are Type A. I am too. What process changes did you implement? Which didn’t work well and which did? What kind of timeline? What level in the organization were you?
In most instances it at was at or near the top of the agency or jurisdiction. The process changes ran the gamut from simply revising policies and protocols (with appropriate oversight to ensure that the new ones were adhered to) to trashing $100 million systems (and their staff proponents) that simply didn’t work and were beyond saving. Timelines ran anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of years depending on the complexity of the problem and more importantly how entrenched particularly problematic staff were. In some cases it took changes in administration to remove their protected status, but once gone they were quickly and easily removed. As to what didn’t work, generally trying to reason with entrenched staff who refused to contemplate that they could be wrong or that I knew what I was talking about. That usually didn’t end well, for them.
I think IT and replacement programs is where I’d start. Combination of multimillion dollar projects not implemented by the best choice, lack of changes in/to business processes, unnecessary and expensive replacement programs not strategic but flat across the board. Then fleet.
My list would start with the Planning Department as it is the biggest bungler and its reach extends to all areas and has been particularly problematic and expensive with regard to transportation, followed by IT and the fleet (which should be combined with the County fleet services to save both entities considerable duplicate expenditures and allow for realizing some economy of scale). Of course none of that will happen without a house-cleaning at the very top. Exploring/auditing those three areas would prove most uncomfortable for the Superintendent.
@Mom
Thanks Mom. Your #20 also points out that zero-based budgeting is how you get to look at legacy programs that may well have outlived their usefulness. The old days of, “Well, we’ve always done it that way” are no longer viable in times of fiscal restraint. If they were, there would still be a burgeoning buggy whip industry. ;-). Other examples would be the electric light, LED lights and bleeding or cupping.
Sounds like Sheriff Kool Aid to me.
I think it’s pretty clever how this is all turning on the school board rather than the bocs who haven’t funded as they should have.
I see cheap political tricks and lots of in-fighting between GOP and Tea Party. The throat slitting is very much in-house.
How we all forget the teachers who trudged down to the BOCS meeting and begged to have that tax rate raised, only to be ignored year after year.
@Mom
I would prefer audit over base budgeting in almost all situations. Programmatic auditing.
Until Walts is told specifics there really isn’t much he can do. He can’t print his own money. Prince William County Schools have been underfunded for the past 30 or so years. Now everyone is in a panic.
It is especially provoking to watch the Board of Supervisors act like apes discovering fire. Every year there has been a parade of poor beleaguered teachers filing past those supervisors talking of over-crowded classrooms. They have pointed out that they have not had a raise to speak of in years. No one must have been paying attention.
Walts and the School Board can only deal with the money that they have. Each year they are given a warning as to exactly how little they are getting. The crisis conditions squarely rest on the shoulders of the Board of Supervisors. To attempt to let any of them off the hook is simply irresponsible.
They need to be working as uniters, not dividers.
New Walts plan in the works: New Taxes on Food, Fun, Considered to Pay for Class-Size Reduction in Prince William – See more at: http://potomaclocal.com/2013/11/27/new-taxes-food-fun-considered-pay-class-size-reduction-prince-william/#sthash.cQ6wGULJ.dpuf
Or they could raise the real estate tax a few cents…like they should have done all along instead of chasing illegal immigrants. Their efforts brought us one of the worst real estate markets in the country. (that was countRy, not county.) Just as recovery began, Tea Party mentality took over and some of them (you can guess who) defied anyone to suggest raising taxes. They worked those assessments against those tax rates like crazy. So here we are the cheapest.
Have you checked those crime incident reports lately? Sometimes cheap acts like a magnet for people who aren’t in the best interests of our county.
All of this talk is just trying to turn a situation that should have been fixed years ago into political opportunity for the fair hair child, if you get my drift. I just don’t believe ridiculing and demeaning others for political gain. Does that make me a bad person? I might have to start telling what I know if it doesn’t stop.
People in prince william should begin worrying about home values.
Rut Roh!!! Please explain.
Spot on article Moon.
Thanks, Frank. Welcome back.