So a certain councilman in the City of Manassas has decided to take on the City Council, single-handedly, and regulate Amethyst Health Center. By whose authority? Mr. Aveni, do you know that abortion is a legal procedure in all 50 states in the United States? Why are you trying to bankrupt the very city that you live in? Manassas should not become a lawsuit magnet.
The owner of the Amethyst Health Center will close the clinic when she is ready to close it, or, she will sell it. You cannot not stand in her way or alter her course. She will topple you like a house of cards while she smiles. The City of Manassas will be sued unless you all regulate all the other outpatient facilities the same way. That would include your plastic surgeons, your gastroenterologists, your oral surgeons, your urologists, and any other medical practice that performs surgery.
Just out of curiosity, why do you people think you are in the position to evaluate what happens between an individual and his or her doctor? Let’s move it past the subject of abortion. Aren’t people entitled to just a little bit of privacy? Don’t people trust their doctors to adhere to best practice? I wouldn’t go to a doctor who didn’t.
Let’s be honest. It’s all political. Mr. Aveni, did you empty out your church to mob the City Council meeting after your resolution failed? Your religious beliefs are not and should not be part of public policy. The believers should practice their faith and leave everyone else alone. You are wasting everyone else’s time and money. Stick to making sure your own house is in order.
This is all a knee-jerk reaction to a situation that has been the status quo for 25 years. Now we hear a Henny-Penny Sky is Falling hysteria over a new abortion clinic coming to town in the next 4 weeks. How absurd! That is simply rumor and hysteria. I also heard you all were getting a nuclear plant. Anyone worried about that? I would be. I bet that’s a rumor also. Why would there be two abortion providers in the same city? There is no new abortion clinic coming to town.
The good people of the City of Manassas need to demand that this nonsense stop so their elected officials can get back to work on the governance of all things City. Right now, you folks are mired down in someone else’s religious beliefs. Time to move on.
One more thing–many folks agree with me but aren’t nearly as outspoken. Think about that at election time. Extreme anti abortion politics really aren’t going to win local elections. You might just have to find that out for yourself though. Don’t you think if most people wanted to get rid of an abortion clinic, it would have happened by now?
Oh boy, now you’ve done it. I bet your phone is going to be ringing off the hook. How dare you trivialize something so important that people come all the way from Gainesville and Haymarket to tell the citizens of Manassas how to run their affairs.
They can certainly try. I have had people even pray over me.
Gainesville and Haymarket can’t even run Gainesville and Haymarket.
Actually, I heard that Lady Elizabeth was going to open a branch of Amethyst out there at Haymarket. Then what are they going to do?
I just love the hypocrisy. Government needs to stay out of the business of mandating health care but wants to get in the business of a woman’s reproduction. Republicans REFUSE to allow Medicaid expansion for those who live in poverty but don’t actually qualify for Medicaid under current standards but want to FORCE a woman to raise a child she may not have insurance coverage to birth or the financial means to raise. But THAT’s ok?
The Aveni guy sounds like he is willing to fight.
Aveni is a hypocrite of the biggest kind. Tea partying it as Manassas Councilman and at his job in PWC, complaining in budget meetings that he and his adept need more money….funny
He and his “adept” need more money?
@Wolverine
Wowowow I wonder if he will be willing to pay the bill when the City gets sued?
I think what Sean is saying, Wolverine, is when he is in Manassas, he goes all tea party and brings his church members out to moan and groan about the women’s clinic in Manassas. Then when he is at his job in the county, he asks for more money.
I will defend him a little on his job in the county…you do what your boss tells you to do.
As for setting the City up for getting sued as well as taking up their time on closing down that clinic, no defense., It is inexcusable.
Sounds to me like he’s a Tea Party guy who is ready to fight for his pro-life values. So, it appears, are many of the members at his church. Better get used to it. They aren’t going to go away soon. Not as long as the blood continues to flow on demand in those clinics.
Wolverine: What’s proposed won’t close the clinic. It won’t have any impact on it. It probably won’t even keep a new clinic from opening in the city. Everyone knows this. I support the pro-life cause but fighting it at the local level is only going to result in legal problems. These are federal issues.
Little Ol’ Manassas didn’t learn their lesson from definition of a family and the million bucks that it cost taxpayers. The city gov should stick to local issues. Not like MAnassas is knocking it out of the park on anything else.
Welcome, Ultra. Thanks for your two cents. That’s what I am finding fascinating, why someone who knows better like Mr. Aveni is trying to saddle the City with a potential lawsuit.
For the record, pro-choice people also would like to see fewer abortions. We just do it by promoting contraception and better choices. Eliminating unintended and unwanted pregnancy would do a lot for getting rid of abortion!!!
Wolverine, do you agree with me about reducing the incidence of unwanted and unintended pregnancy?
I think everyone has to refocus on the fact that there is an election this fall. The Aveni-Miller coalition’s attempt to boot Mark Wolfe off the council failed. The effort to stop the changing of local elections from May to November failed. I think Mr. A is counting votes and may think that his chances this fall are slipping. Perhaps he needs something to hang his reelection hat on, or maybe his is trying to go out with a “bang”.
He needs to find a different “bang.” Many of us won’t sit idle when women, when faced with one of the most difficult decisions of their lives, are being used as buzzard bait…aka politics.
Some of these social do-gooders might also considering taking all the time they are wasting, pontificating about “the scourge of abortion” and open a very inexpensive day care center for young women so they can continue their education or find a job. The underlying cause of abortion is economic empowerment or lack thereof. Safe, reliable child care is critical to young mothers (and old ones too). I would donate some time to child care if such an establishment were to evolve.
I invite folks to wander over to Andy Harrover’s blog and scroll down to February 5th for the first posting on Zoning efforts, then scroll up for “Part Deuce” and “Quickly”. http://harrover.com/wordpress/
As for Abortion Clinics, remember the other year Del. Marshall pushing all three local governments to pass resolutions supporting consolidating these Clinics regulations? Well, VA Dept of Health published them this past June, and they can be found on the VDH website. Personally, I supported putting all the rules in one publication – Virginia Code and Virgina Administrative Code is so scattered, having all the rules in one place is actually a good idea.
Yeah, the housing lawsuit….folks think just because we are out of the five year observation period as part of that $800K-plus settlement (legal fees took it over $1million), that we in the City are not being watched. Fat chance on that…we are still being watched by HUD and the Equal Rights Center. And the law firm? Interesting bunch. Beveridge & Diamond P.C. and Albert Beveridge III is distant cousin of mine.
@IVAN
Have heard the Manassas Repulican Party is going for a primary vs. a convention this year. What will be interesting is if our one and only Independent – Steve Randolph – who also has served the longest on the Council, will run again.
@Ray
What will be interesting is how many R’s file to run in the primary. Apparently, Aveni had a “slate” lined up to run at a convention to try to knock Harrover and any others out. With a primary, that is not going to happen. Having more than three names on the ballot could create some interesting results. The real drama may occur in two years with Way, Wolfe and Lovejoy coming up.
What is the issue? A councilman acting on behalf of the city? A councilman actually doing what the council is called to do? Oversight? Medical facility special use permits? Youre open hostility towards religious people is appalling. The shameless left strikes again
Actually, Faith, that isn’t what the council is called upon to do. Oversight my ass! You aren’t doing oversight over there at the urology outpatient clinic. That service is far more invasive and dangerous that abortion. Cystoscopies? Vasectomies? Anesthesia is involved in both of those procedures, yet no one feels compelled to provide oversight there.
Faith, you don’t know me. Just because I am not YOUR religion is no reason to assume I am not religious. Your intolerance of other people who don’t agree with your religious beliefs is appalling. I don’t care for zealotry. However, zealotry isn’t religion.
so is it that you assume everyone who disagrees with you is a religious nut OR that everyone who is religious is a nut?
Pa-Leeze Faith! Medical over site is done by professionals, not elected politicians pandering to their base.
When you get a colonoscopy done you are under anesthesia for at least 20 minutes, a greater risk of REAL medical complications occur from that procedure than from an abortion. The silly shell game of “lo we only want to protect the woman” is a joke and you know it along with the rest of the thinking community. Guess what? I am pro life, I have two beautiful children, but I also believe that women control their economic future, not you, not Mark Aveni, NOT self aggrandizing politicians.
Abortion is legal, don’t believe in them, don’t have one. What comes out a woman’s vagina is her business, not Mark Aveni’s and not yours either. It’s so easy to deny a woman the right to choice and espouse the love of life while in the same breath deny Medicaid and food stamps to poor single mothers who can’t afford another mouth to feed.
It would appear that the recent experience in Arizona would indicate that Moon and her followers are not the only ones who hold hostility towards “religious people”.
@Faith
I don’t believe I used the word “nut.” If I felt someone were over the top I would probably say extremist or zealot.
I am very tolerant of religions not my own, as long as someone doesn’t shove that religion down my throat or expect me to follow the beliefs. I am live and let live with most religions, including snake handlers unless I am asked to handle their snakes.
Obviously you are not since you want to shove your religion down the throats of the people of this community.
“social do gooders”. Sounds like a slave owner braying against the abolitionists
So you know that I am religious and NOT your religion. Youre quite a mind reader. You go on and on about different clinics in the area and how dangerous the procedures are. So you want the council to have more over site? Are you suggesting that abortion clinics have NO over site because it involves vaginas? Or are you simply pissed because you feel that their is a religious tone to vaginal over site?
I find the lack of meaningful debate by Faith to be quite telling.
*there
elena, you cut me to the quick. Are you suggesting that the clinics you mentioned are NOT regulated by politicians? Are you suggesting that city council shouldnt oversee zoning? Are you suggesting that abortion clinics should be allowed anywhere because they involve vaginas?
Faith, I don’t know what you are talking about and I doubt if you do either.
Tell me about this oversight.
I believe that Amethyst Health Care is a member of NAF. They also come under several government agencies that have oversight into all medical practices. Why should a clinic that provides abortion have more oversight than a Urologist?
What is it exactly that the mob wants to have done? I know what the general intent is: shut down Amethyst Health Care. Why not just be honest.
If that happens, then everyone will go to Falls Church or Fairfax. It won’t all go away. You will just have less control. No one is going to run the Coddings out of town, btw.
Faith,
I am suggesting that like clinics that perform colonoscopy’s are no different than abortion clinics, period. Start effing with all medical clinics and see what happens, but that isn’t going to happen because at the end of the day, this is all legally indefensible.
I am suggesting that like rectums, vagina’s are not the purview of politicians to oversee personally, it’s the purview of the doctor.
Less control of what? Are you suggesting Aveni is trying to use means outside his rightful oversight? Medical facilities have to have a medical facility use permit. Should all permit applications be rubber stamped or JUST ones for abortionists?
Well it actually is very easily defensible. Im not sure those words mean what you think they mean. So city council shouldnt be involved with zoning? Or are you saying they shouldnt be involved with zoning medical facilities?
Oh quit hiding behind zoning. That’s such a crock. If medical facilities are zoned, then they should all be zoned the same.
Faith, you are becoming the weasel-word wonder here.
Again, I am going to ask, exactly what is being proposed? (in your own words)
Im missing your point. This IS a zoning issue. What are you accusing Aveni of?
What is being proposed for Amethyst? Please explain to me what you want to happen?
BTW, youre hysterical charge that this invites lawsuits is silly. You are not a lawyer, clearly. Fairfax has done the exact same thing and no lawsuits have materialized.
Youve turned a city councilmen’s rightful oversight into a religion bashing quagmire. Youre simply ridiculous
What do I want to happen? Rainbows and whirrled peas. The idea that we treat all medical facilities the same is absurd. Do you need a diagram drawn? Dentists and urologists dont produce thousands of pounds of “fetal waste material” to deal with. Should the city be concerned with a clinics ability to dispose of their dead babies? To pretend it all the same simply isnt rooted in reality.
@Faith
Ah ha….there she is!!!
You simply don’t know what you are talking about. The city isn’t disposing of any medical waste. The clinic has a medical waste service.
There aren’t thousands of pounds of dead babies. Good grief. You are describing something that doesn’t exist, at least not in the City of Manassas.
Amethyst is a first trimester facility only.
So now you know that medical waste isn’t an issue. What’s the next line of defense to throw up?
The Fairfax clinic was closing anyway. No one has challenged the law, yet. That doesn’t mean it won’t be challenged.
How do you know what my credentials are? I don’t need to have passed the bar to know that abortion is legal in the United States and that if someone wants to challenge laws being enacted by the City that restrict a woman’s right to an abortion, they can do so. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know its going to cost the City some bucks.
Funny, all of the big money that the city has had to pay out is because of social engineering. Ever think of that?
Did you call me a shameful liberal or something like that earlier? I have been smiling about that all day. I love labels. Just so you know a little more about me, I am a wife, a mother and a grandmother. I had a career most of my adult life and I try to live charitably. I try to give locally to people who are down on their luck. Does that make me a shameful liberal? If so, then I guess I am proud of that.
In looking at harrover’s blog it seems like the big disagreement is how fast to get the clinic regulation done? This hardly seems worth the time.
@faith: is it a pure zoning issue or not? You’re sending conflicting messages.
Are you saying this ISNT a zoning issue? Thats the question I keep asking and you keep dodging. What EXACTLY are you accusing Aveni of other than believing in God?
Well that didn’t take long Moon.
what happens when I woman is having a miscarriage and must have D&C Faith? What about treatment for precancerous cells within her cervix? What about oral surgery? This is all about abortion and nothing else, clearly Aveni has targeted abortion clinics and I hope the city stands up to the him and all the other people who love to force a woman to have a baby all the while towing the line on TEA party tactics.
OK–so your accusing Aveni of being prolife? Is that it?
Faith, you can read. Go back and read the thread.
One man fighting a Federal law that has stood for decades that he opposes because of his personal and religious beliefs and using taxpayer’s money and time to do it, that is what this is about. It may be a noble cause to some but it is a waste of time and resources to the citizens of Manassas who want better schools and services.
Which federal law?
I do believe that Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land unless overturned by the Supreme Court. This gives it precedent over all State and local laws.
Its not a law. The Supreme Court doesnt make law, it interprets them. The SC has decided that local zoning laws can be applied to abortion clinics. Aveni is within the law.
It most certainly is established law…Roe V Wade.
Want to give me the case where abortion can be controlled by local zoning laws?
Aveni is free to try. When the City is deeply involved in law suits, you were warned. I don’t live in the City. I just hate to see my friends over there having to pony up for that one.
Aveni is famous for his clarion calls in church. I know lots of folks who plan to vote him out of office because he seems to work in opposition to what is in the best interests of the City.
If the City is trying to apply any additional regulations to clinics that offer abortion services, I will oppose that also. It’s really not up to any municipality to stand in judgement.
Yes, but after 25 years in existence, zoning is “grandfathered” in. If the current owner sells the clinic or wills it to another, the zoning for that location is grandfathered with the business, that is, according to City staff.
Btw, Roe V Wade was based on a law as are all SCOUS decisions. Zoning is not a law, it is a local ordinance. It can be challenged in court as the Definition of Family ordinance was, but it is applied to Constitutional guarantees.
Thank you City Girl for defining recognized law vs zoning. I hope that it is helpful to Faith.
This discussion started out as a thread on zoning changes in the City. Then it became a “war on religion”. Now we’re back to zoning. I’m getting a headache.
Zoning laws are laws. SC decisions are interpretations of law. You speak well outside your expertise. Abortion clinics are subject to zoning laws. This isnt about the existing facility, although the latest inspection report has identified numerous serious issues.
So to sum up your arguments, you are against Aveni because he goes to church. Is that all?
oh and the SC doesnt decide cases based on the law, they decide based on the constitution. Any of you ladies ever take a basic civics course?
Reading all of this has been entertaining, though it’s clear that Faith (-ful?, -less?) is struggling with the concept of case law. I looked for (and found) the simplest definition of case law I could find:
case law
noun
law established by judicial decisions in particular cases, instead of by legislative action.
Origin:
1860–65
Although it’s off-topic, it does show that a discussion with Faith about case law is not going to be very productive.
Faith, your teacher is calling you. We know it’s a snow day and you are probably bored.
I am not going to argue semantics with you.
Go back and read the thread. It tells you all you need to know.
I am opposed to any local jurisdiction attempting to regulate a woman’s health care clinic. This is not the first time Mr. Aveni has attempted to stand in the way of reproductive freedom.
Now, what part of what I just said do you not understand?
If you want to think it is all about religion, fine. Think that. I really don’t care. You are going to wrap yourself in your own cocoon of delusion about how the rest of the world thinks. I doubt that anything I say will have any impact on you or vice versa.
Here’s what I see the problem is, Faith. You are defending someone important to you. I am guessing you are Mr. Aveni’s wife or daughter, while I base that on nothing other than the ferocity with which you are defending him. You are trying to draw me into a discussion that makes fun of his religion or personal attributes.
That isn’t going to happen. I believe I can disagree strongly with policy without demeaning those personal characteristics that often become easy targets on blogs.
I don’t care if Mr. Aveni is a Snake-Handler or an Atheist. It makes no difference to me. I don’t want someone else’s religion becoming the basis for municipal policy. I don’t want someone emptying out the pews to have policy made based on number of people from a church. Church beliefs have no business becoming law or rules governing jurisdictions.
So it doesn’t matter to me how faithful Mr. Aveni is or whether you think I am a Godless sinner bound for the fiery pits of Hell, as you suggested this morning. I don’t even care if you think I am a flaming liberal. <—- that is just a label.
Faith, I feel you brought a butter knife to a gun fight.