So a certain councilman in the City of Manassas has decided to take on the City Council, single-handedly, and regulate Amethyst Health Center.  By whose authority?  Mr. Aveni, do you know that abortion is a legal procedure in all 50 states in the United States?  Why are you trying to bankrupt the very city that you live in?  Manassas should not become a lawsuit magnet.

The owner of the Amethyst  Health Center will close the clinic when she is ready to close it, or, she will sell it.  You cannot not stand in her way or alter her course.  She will topple you like a house of cards while she smiles.  The City of Manassas will be sued unless you all regulate all the other outpatient facilities the same way.  That would include your plastic surgeons, your gastroenterologists, your oral surgeons, your urologists, and any other medical practice that performs surgery.

Just out of curiosity, why do you people think you are in the position to evaluate what happens between an individual and his or her doctor?  Let’s move it past the subject of abortion.  Aren’t people entitled to just a little bit of privacy?  Don’t people trust their doctors to adhere to best practice?  I wouldn’t go to a doctor who didn’t.

Let’s be honest.  It’s all political.  Mr. Aveni, did you empty out your church to mob the City Council meeting after your resolution failed?   Your religious beliefs are not and should not be part of public policy.  The believers should practice their faith and leave everyone else alone.  You are wasting everyone else’s time and money.  Stick to making sure your own house is in order.

This is all a knee-jerk reaction to a situation that has been the status quo for 25 years.  Now we hear a Henny-Penny Sky is Falling hysteria over a new abortion clinic coming to town in the next 4 weeks.  How absurd!  That is simply rumor and hysteria.  I also heard you all were getting a nuclear plant.  Anyone worried about that?   I would be.  I bet that’s a rumor also.  Why would there be two abortion providers in the same city?  There is no new abortion clinic coming to town.

The good people of the City of Manassas need to demand that this nonsense stop so their elected officials can get back to work on the governance of all things City.  Right now, you folks are  mired down in someone else’s religious beliefs.  Time to move on.

One more thing–many folks agree with me but aren’t nearly as outspoken.  Think about that at election time.   Extreme anti abortion politics really aren’t going to win  local elections.  You might just have to find that out for yourself though.  Don’t you think if most people wanted to get rid of an abortion clinic, it would have happened by now?

 

143 Thoughts to “The City and the abortion clinic: past, present and future”

  1. Do you not realize that federal law takes precedent over any state law Faith? Do you think you can zone such a facility that it cannot operate? I will agree with you on one point, there hasn’t been a lawsuit in Virginia to challenge these various targeted laws, including TRAP, against reproductive clinics. My hope is that there will be one forthcoming very soon. I love how republicans want to force a woman to bear a child she doesn’t want but G-d forbid you force people to buy health insurance! It’s such hypocrisy to a level I cannot fathom. All on the premise of forcing someone to pay for something they don’t want. How much does it cost to raise a child Faith? quarter of a million dollars! and that is just to 18, like suddenly they aren’t your financial responsibility anymore.

  2. Faith

    Elena, you are all over the map. Federal law does trump state law. What federal law applies in this situation? The abortion clinic wants to challenge zoning laws? OK. Sure. Go ahead.

    As for forcing people? I will agree that conservatives are all about making people be responsible for themselves. True. And? What does any of this have to do with a council member using oversight in zoning issues?

  3. Faith

    Moonhowler–YOu made this about religion, not I. YOU made this about him being religious. As for who I am, I am no relation to the man, but I have had the pleasure of meeting him at political functions.

    You did make me laugh with your paranoid “you think Im going to hell”. No, pumpkin. Youre stupid. Thats all the thought Ive given you

    1. It’s probably a good thing you were talking to me, rather than some of our contributors. That would get you thrown off here faster than greased lightning. However, since you have provided me with so much entertainment today, I won’t do that. Just make sure it’s at Elena and me and no one else. She has been entertained also.

      Listen carefully now: It’s only about religion if you are trying to legislate your beliefs for everyone else. You can be whatever religion you want, just keep it out of the public square. You bring it to the public square and try to make your religion part of public policy, then you are going to have a real problem.

  4. Trinity

    Mr. Lovejoy and Mr. Aveni both declared Manassas City to be a pro -life city.

    Don’t you think that settles it? Nearly all the people in Manassas are pro life. We hate abortion with all our souls!

    1. Trinity, that’s your right to hate whatever you want. It isn’t your right to mandate your feelings for everyone else.

      I don’t know what to tell you about Lovejoy and Aveni. I guess they would need a referendum to make that declaration. Where did they say this?

  5. Faith

    So to sum up this bloggers point—Roe V Wade is a federal law that prohibits people who go to church from city council oversight of zoning laws. welllll….thats…….something

    1. Faith, do you really want people to think you are a ditz? Do yourself a favor and log off.

  6. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/01/06/federal-court-to-review-texas-abortion-law/

    NEW ORLEANS (AP) – A federal appeals court is weighing whether the state of Texas can enforce a law that led to the closing of many abortion clinics.

    A three-judge panel of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals didn’t indicate how soon it would rule after hearing arguments Monday over a district judge’s decision to declare parts of the 2013 law unconstitutional.

    Planned Parenthood and the Center for Reproductive Rights sued to block a provision requiring doctors to have admitting privileges near where the abortion is performed. The groups say U.S. District Judge Lee Yeakel correctly ruled in October that the provisions place an unconstitutional burden on women’s access to abortion.

    The 5th Circuit allowed Texas to enforce the law while it appealed the decision.

    1. There really is no compelling reason for the doctor to have hospital rights. It’s just another road block.

  7. Faith

    trinity, moon howly thinks only people who think exactly like her belong in the public policy realm

    1. Faith, you aren’t doing your side or your people much good. When you present your side, you should probably try to put your best foot forward. Calling people stupid who don’t agree with you really isn’t ‘best foot forward’ behavior, especially when you are a guest.

  8. Faith

    Yes, the people of Texas fought for a law to protect women. Doctors have to be AT LEAST competent enough to have admitting privileges to the local hospital. The real shock is how many couldnt even get that

  9. No Faith, Roe V Wade protects a woman’s right to control her body in the first trimester of an unwanted pregnancy. Period. If states choose to enact laws that inhibit that right, they are acting illegally. Think of separate but equal Faith, Brown V. Board of Education Topeka Kansas. Roe V Wade is established law with over 40 years of precedence. The city can pass any zoning law it wants, but if risks legal action if it treats an abortion clinic different from any other clinic that performs like services. Abortions are not invasive surgery, you may find them repugnant and that is your right, but there the risk factor for harm is less than .01% for the woman and THAT is the person who is the breathing, thinking, sentient being protected by law, not a fetus.

    You want to live in a fetus focused country? Go to Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan, or any other middle eastern country or a country with a strong religious government structure. In THIS country, religion does not dictate our laws, that is what makes us a democratic republic and NOT a theocracy.

  10. Oh Faith, you have no clue what you are talking about. How many women die from abortions as opposed to childbirth in this country? I imagine you have no clue do you?

  11. Oh, and that .01 is not mortality, its simply represents a complication.

    This country ranks 50th Faith in maternal mortality. Do you know who is most at risk, the very women that won’t have the resources to gain access to a credible clinic once people like you close down the most affordable and accessible clinics. You and people like you are the ones putting women’s health at risk.

  12. Faith

    So youre saying that abortion clinics be outside the laws regulating other clinics? All the other clinics you mentioned that perform procedures, those doctors have to have admitting privileges at the local hospital. You are amusing when you keep talking the law. Dredd Scott ring a bell? Plessy V Feregson? It is a simple law that the people in Texas passed to protect women from bad abortionists, and you balk. Shouldnt the women in Texas be protected? Shouldnt the women and men in Texas expect a bare minimum of competency from abortionists? Shame on you for thinking so little of womens lives and safety!!

  13. Confused

    Straw man debate tactics are dishonest and bore me …

  14. Faith

    You actually said that women suffer when the law demands a level of cleanliness and competency? Gosnell must have been your hero. No doubt he would love people like you defending the idea of sending women into filthy unregulated pits

    1. Faith, Gosnell performed illegal abortions. He and what he did was unacceptable and illegal. You seriously don’t think those were legal abortions, do you?

  15. Faith

    Filthy death loving scum. You are filthy death loving scum. Shame on you. Your only complaint against Aveni is he refuses to worship at your bloody altar built on dead babies and butchered women. Filthy death loving scum

  16. Confused

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

  17. Wow, Faith is not being very nice is she 🙂

    It isn’t nice to laugh at people when they are becoming so unhinged. Was it something I said?

  18. City Girl

    So, after a day of spirited discussions, we are now to the point where name calling is all that is left. I agree with Confused WOOOOOOOW.

  19. Faith,
    I care more for the health and well being of women then you will ever understand. Gosnell was an anomaly and he operated an illegal clinic which is WHY he is in jail.

  20. Oh, and Faith, not that it’s any of your business, but I fought for the right of women in this state to have certified midwives legally attend their home birth if they so chose. I believe in reproductive rights AND birthing rights.

  21. Confused

    I’ve got to admit … I did NOT see *that* coming ….
    @Faith

  22. Faith :

    Filthy death loving scum. You are filthy death loving scum. Shame on you. Your only complaint against Aveni is he refuses to worship at your bloody altar built on dead babies and butchered women. Filthy death loving scum

    You know, Elena, other contributors and I have tried to stick to policy and not get into the gutter. However, Faith, you are simply out of control.

    Is this what the people of Manassas want? Is this what Mr. Aveni’s followers do? Is this how they express themselves? Is this how they treat people with whom they do not agree?

    If you are a child, your parents should restrict you from the internet. If you are an adult, you probably need to talk to your priest or pastor about getting control of your emotions on topics that you clearly do not understand.

  23. Kelly_3406

    I do not see a lot of difference legally between local abortion regulation and local gun control. The right to bear arms is constitutionally protected, yet cities/municipalities look for opportunities to regulate ownership or in some cases to drive firearms stores out of business.

    As is pointed out frequently on this blog, no freedom is without limits. People want to limit gun ownership because innocent victims might get killed. It requires no reference to any religion to point out that abortion always results in a death.

    The Supreme Court has stated that some regulation of firearms is allowed, but the regulation cannot be so stringent as to prevent firearm ownership and use. That has not stopped from cities from going too far (e.g. D.C.).

    Has Supreme Court case law specifically forbidden any local/state regulation of abortion? I am not aware of it if it has. I see no reason that abortion should be any more protected from local regulation than gun rights.

  24. @Kelly, it is being challenged in Virginia. Not sure where the case is.

    I am not sure I am ready to compare abortion rights to gun rights. I am also not sure how far I am willing for municipalities to be able to regulate gun ownership either. I have never thought about it.

    Given my dislike of patch work of laws, I would pretty much tell localities to leave gun shops and gun ownership alone. That falls under state jurisdiction which falls under federal jurisdiction.

  25. Cato the Elder

    This is like a ten car pileup on the beltway.

    I know I shouldn’t be staring at it, but I can’t stop looking.

  26. Ray Beverage

    Faith :What is the issue? A councilman acting on behalf of the city? A councilman actually doing what the council is called to do? Oversight? Medical facility special use permits? Youre open hostility towards religious people is appalling. The shameless left strikes again

    Faith, let me guide you to a reference regarding Regulation of Abortion Clinics, and when you look at the Virginia Administrative Code Regulation, you will find the section where the Local Government is referenced. It is under Part VII. The only other areas where the Local Government gets involved is the Clinic is responsible for security (and by other VA Laws they must coodinate with the local Police Department) and for disaster preparedness (where they coordinate wiht the local F&R System).
    http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/OLC/Laws/documents/pdf/RIS%202970%20Abortion%20Facility%20Regs%20final%20reg%202013.pdf?textid=5885

    You will also see that Abortion Clinics are classified as “hospitals” – and in the City of Manassas as the effective date of this regulation on June 20, 2013 – has only one Zoning District Business-4 where any future clinic could be established.

    The real issue at hand is this: The City Council knows not only our City Code Zoning Chapters need updating for such things as the changes to what a “Medical Office” is under current Virginia Code, but also the whole Code is in a need of review and updating. The Council, in a 5-1 Vote (Mr. Aveni was the no vote) on February 3rd voted to follow the Staff recommendation to do the overhaul in three phases. Mr. Aveni objects to the timeline and feels that Special Use Permits must be looked at now. Of course, the people who have turned out speaking supporting his request are Pro-Life. Those few of us who are asking questions (basically, what is the rush? why do you keep bringing this up?) are not being heard. 2nd Rule of Politics: Decisions are made by those who show up.

    Please do review these minutes. And take note – Mr. Lovejoy who was referenced in an early comment voted in support of the Staff recommendations.
    http://www.manassascity.org/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/5744

  27. Faith

    I stand by my statements

  28. Faith

    Moonhowl–I talked to my priestess, she agreed

  29. Confused

    Kelly_3406 :
    I do not see a lot of difference legally between local abortion regulation and local gun control.

    Other than one is a Second Amendment issue and the other a Fourteenth Amendment (or Ninth depending on your interpretation) issue?

  30. Kelly,
    Abortion rights are very regulated, as you can clearly see state by state.

  31. Censored bybvbl

    LOL! The above screed(s) screams sock puppet to me… I haven’t witnessed such a break-down since reading one of the eBay spin-off boards about 15 years ago!

  32. Kelly_3406

    Confused :

    Kelly_3406 :
    I do not see a lot of difference legally between local abortion regulation and local gun control.

    Other than one is a Second Amendment issue and the other a Fourteenth Amendment (or Ninth depending on your interpretation) issue?

    I see no legal difference in the justification for states/municipalities to REGULATE these rights.

    The inability of you (or anyone else) to state precisely what in the Constitution grants abortion rights is instructive. I am not a big fan of penumbral rights, given that reasonable people can interpret them differently. The power assumed by the Supreme Court to define new rights based on “penumbral emanations” of the Constitution seems excessive.

  33. I gave the example of Texas Kelly, I thought that was very instructive. It’s one thing to have regulations, it’s another to make them so cumbersome that it prevents the ability legally perform the procedure that states, county’s, city’s walk a slippery slope.

  34. @Kelly_3406

    There is very little to specifically state most Constitutional rights. That’s pretty much why cases go to the Supreme Court. Integration, contraception, interracial marriage, privacy all evolve out of interpretations rather than specifically stated law.

  35. Andyh

    @Faith, etc.al.: Recall that this is not a question of beliefs, feelings or anything else. It’s a question of *when* this examination will take place. Not if. The Council has already voted 5-1 to overhaul the entire code. This includes abortion clinics.

    Also, the Council is not regulating anything other than where these clinics can locate. That’s it. That’s all we can do and we have to do it very carefully. Just as we have to do with all federally protected uses.

    At the risk of irritating Moon, I’ll link to this article on my blog that attempts to explain what is going on: http://harrover.com/wordpress/?p=2512

  36. Ray Beverage

    @Andyh

    Thanks for jumping in, Andy! I made the referral to your blog and the Feb 3rd Minutes. Trying, trying, trying to educate folks on the whole scenario I be 🙂

  37. Olivia

    @Moon-howler
    Moonhowler- I am Mr. Aveni’s daughter. I don’t know Faith, but I would appreciate you not assume you know who is commenting on your blog. My father can fight his own battles without getting his family involved.

  38. Olivia

    @Moon-howler
    Moonhowler- I am Mr. Aveni’s daughter. I don’t know Faith, but I would appreciate you not assume you know who is commenting on your blog.

    1. Hello, Olivia. I have a granddaughter named Olivia.

      I often do know who is commenting on my blog. In this case, I was in error. The contributor said she was not Mr. Aveni’s wife and daughter. Nothing else was made over it. Usually when people fiercely defend someone local, there is a family connection. Thank you for identifying yourself.

      I can understand why you do not want to be identified with that behavior.

  39. @Andyh
    Your link doesn’t irritate me at all, Andy. Feel free.

    I never get irritated over a link.

  40. Olivia

    Thanks Moon howler. Just throwing a few things out there.
    1. I would like to clarify that my father does not call people to action during church services; (at least none that I’ve attended, and I’ve been going to church with my dad for over 20 years now!) nor did he empty his church to get people to speak. In fact, I know a few of the girls who spoke at the last council meeting and they don’t even go to my dad’s church. The pro-life crowd is not limited to one church or one faith community in Manassas.

    2. Manassas has a large contingency of pro-life voters, and the other members of city council would do well to listen to them. Ian Lovejoy was elected mainly because of the conservative, pro-life vote, and Lovejoy’s recent failure to back my father was duly noted by these same pro-life voters.

    Sounds like the vote has already been cast (per Andy’s post) so there’s no point in beating a dead horse. Just let it be said, the pro-life community in Manassas is not a silent minority, and if this recent blog post is any indicator, not one easily deterred from it’s mission. I would hope that people who have the true interests of our city in mind would be interested in reaching out to the pro-life community.

  41. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Olivia. I just want to clarify a point. I am also pro life. I defend the rights of women as separate sentient beings, not as incubators. I can appreciate the very difficult decisions a woman must face when confronted with an unintended pregnancy. It is your choice NOT to have an abortion, just as it would be my choice to do otherwise if I found it necessary. I gave life to two beautiful children.

    As moonhowler has stated many times in the past, no one WANTS an abortion, no want ever WANTS to be in that position. The way to prevent abortion is to improve access to birth control, to educate women on where to get those services for reproductive care.

    It is NOT to be a party that closes planned parenthood or the various other clinics that offer both abortion AND birth control. In fact, if Virginia republicans had any sense, they would be embracing Medicaid expansion so that poor women had access to full health care, including birth control.

    What happens in Manassas, in this particular case, regarding the clinic, has a broader interest. It isn’t just Manassas residents that have a stake in the future of the clinic, it is about women and their rights.

    And interesting, you said you “In fact, I know a few of the girls who spoke at the last council meeting and they don’t even go to my dad’s church”. So, the inverse is that the majority of girls who spoke DO go to your dad’s church. Just an observation.

  42. @Olivia

    I suppose I am curious why the City of Manassas pro life community puts so much stock in whether a candidate is anti-choice or pro choice. You probably know that I live in the county and I don’t pay much attention to reproductive rights issues with my local officials unless they make a big deal out of it. I just have always figured reproductive rights aren’t a local issue.
    What is it that you hope to achieve?

    I would say that there is a fairly large but silent majority of pro-choice voters in the City if the last election is any example. I believe that the City swung Democratic by nearly 2 points.

    Frankly, most of the people I know in the City care a lot more about good schools, transportation, city services, and public safety. Let’s face it, abortion just isn’t a daily issue. Those other issues are things that people face day in and day out.

    I think most people tire of both sides and see people who can’t come up for air on either side as extremist. Most folks just want to improve their daily lives and that is how they will vote.

  43. George S. Harris

    @Kelly_3406
    Kelly, it’s not that the Constitution necessarily grants the right to abortion per se but here is what Roe v. Wade was about:

    Issues
    Do abortion laws that criminalize all abortions, except those required on medical advice to save the life of the mother, violate the Constitution of the United States?
    Does the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution protect the right to privacy, including the right to obtain an abortion?
    Are there any circumstances where a state may enact laws prohibiting abortion?
    Did the fact that Roe’s pregnancy had already terminated naturally before this case was decided by the Supreme Court render her lawsuit moot?
    Was the district court correct in denying injunctive relief?

    Holding and Rule
    Yes. State criminal abortion laws that except from criminality only life-saving procedures on the mother’s behalf, and that do not take into consideration the stage of pregnancy and other interests, are unconstitutional for violating the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
    Yes. The Due Process Clause protects the right to privacy, including a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy, against state action.
    Yes. Though a state cannot completely deny a woman the right to terminate her pregnancy, it has legitimate interests in protecting both the pregnant woman’s health and the potentiality of human life at various stages of pregnancy.
    No. The natural termination of Roe’s pregnancy did not render her suit moot.
    Yes. The district court was correct in denying injunctive relief.

    It’s about Due Process and the Right to Privacy. Nothing about church, what brand of religion-it’s about states overstepping their bounds. Is this too hard for you, and particularly, Faith to understand?

    For those who wish to bring their religion into the discussion, I say you should keep in your pocket, after all we have tried very hard in this nation to keep religion and the state seep tatted. You have no more right to attempt to stuff your religious belief down mt throat or the throat of anyone any more than I have to stuff mine down yours.

    As to regulation of these clinics, I’m more concerned they’re accredited by the Joint Commission on the Accreditation of Hospitals than where they are located. This is the nationally recognized body for accrediting most things medical, including outpatient surgical clinics.

  44. Six Pack

    I see two issues here.

    First, the existing clinic.

    Until a few years ago, it was not regulated and inspected by the state health department, only the national abortion federation (which is a bit like the fox guarding the hen house). Since that time, the state health department has found health and safety violations at this clinic that have been, or are hopefully in the process of being corrected. We should all be thankful for these regular state inspections so we never see another clinic like Kermit Gosnell had! This council was very involved in the state health department regulation effort. They passed 5-1 a motion from Mr. Aveni to request the previous Governor to provide some state health department oversight, which he did as some of you know. Mr. Wolfe was the lone no vote in this case. I hope this state inspection program continues under the new Governor. Greenville SC was able to close down an abortion clinic in that town due to repeated health and safety violations, I believe the Supreme Court has upheld their ability as a city to do this?

    As I understand the new motion from Mr. Aveni, which was not supported by Mr. Lovejoy the first time, but it was the second time he made it (?), it would define medical uses consistent with the state definitions and require those uses by special use permit. This means the medical use applicant would need to come before council to “make their pitch” and a public hearing would be held. This is the same process for many land uses that legitimately can have potential impacts on the surrounding community. This could be a hospital, an abortion clinic and certain other surgical uses. Like other land use votes, council could vote for or against it. This is not the same as the full zoning study being promoted by other council members that would yes, define uses, but allow them in certain zones administratively.

    Thank you.

    1. Welcome six pack. I don’t believe clinics that provide abortion services should come under any more scrutiny than any other medical facility unless problems have been reported. Bad medicine is bad medicine, regardless of what the specialty is.

      NAF certainly doesn’t want to have abortion providers who practice bad medicine. Pro-choice people and pro-choice organizations want and demand safe medical standards. NAF would be the standard bearer. Your comment that it is the fox guarding the hen house is offensive. It implies that pro-choice people will accept sloppy, careless medicine. Absolutely not.

      I don’t think Amethyst Health Center has been cited for health department violations. I believe that is one of those old stories that circulates but lacks merit or veracity. However, if you can find documentation that it has happened, I would appreciate you posting it here on this blog. I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is about safe and legal. I don’t know if there are state health inspections or not. Are those inspections done at all facilities? What is inspected? I would be interested in finding that out also.

      I can’t address the SUP because I don’t know what it entails or if it entails anything at this point. I would just expect that all medical facilities be treated equally.

  45. Wolverine

    As I recall, NAF did know that Gosnell was operating an unsanitary and unsafe clinic. The NAF inspector reported this as fact, and the report was apparently ignored by NAF, as were other negative complaints ignored by PA state health authorities as part of a specific policy. The same inspector stated such about the NAF inspection in Gosnell’s grand jury trial. I don’t recall the NAF rationale for all this.

    Back in Michigan, no one took on the same kind of clinic in my hometown except the local pro-life forces and another ob/gyn doctor after one of the clinic clients nearly died in a local hospital from a botched abortion. It turns out that the clinic had never been inspected either by NAF or the local health department. A police entry for a suspected burglary uncovered it. The doctor in question had previously spent time in jail because of illegal prescription drug sales. His license was restored through shenanigans by a personal friend on the state medical license board. Once the clinic was closed, the doctor disappeared. State government has been working on better licensing and clinic oversight. Pro-life forces, however, kept after the doctor and discovered, to the consternation of state authorities, that the guy had been hired by a medical clinic (not abortion) in the Detroit area. He was fired and apparently has disappeared again.

    It seems to me that keeping this type of charlatan away from women is not very easy in our large and complicated society. I think we need a genuine combined effort from NAF, local government, state government, and pro-choice and pro-life elements, regardless of stance on the central issue, to uncover these bad clinics and get them shut down. It should be a common goal.

    1. Why do you suppose that abortion clinics are more likely to have predators and charlatans than other types of medical facility? I don’t think they do.

      Whatever agency is in place for medical facilities should be in place for abortion providers also. I expect it varies from state to state.

      Lets face it folks. Inspections? They aren’t going to go in and watch a physician perform an abortion on someone. They are going to check for people having the proper certification, clean equipment that works right, and to see if patients have privacy and chairs to sit in.

      NAF is a professional association of abortion providers. They want excellence. I don’t think they just let anyone join. However, what are they going to do if they find out you are running a shoddy operation? Pull your credentials is about it.

      Abortion clinics probably are under more scrutiny than just about any other facility because of the controversy over abortion. Other types of facilities can be butchering people left and right and it goes undetected because your urologist isn’t under the watchful eye of people opposed to the existence of that clinic. What’s worse, an abortion charlatan or a urologist charlatan? Can they both be equally bad? Someone bad in either field can kill you. So can a charlatan oral surgeon or plastic surgeon. Just ask Kenye West. His mother died from botched plastic surgery.

      We all want safe, excellent medicine in any type of gynecology work. What we don’t want is doctors harassed out of business or in some cases, killed out of the field.

      Gosner preformed illegal abortions. No one approves of that and the pro choice people are who blew the whistle on that one also. The pro choice people also saw to it that one got closed down over in Suitland also.

  46. George S. Harris

    I am not sure I totally agree with Six Pack but I wonder why these clinics are not accredited by there JCAH. Is it because the general medical community does not approve of abortions or what? Apparently the NAF came into being because the general medical accrediting body, the JCAH did nothing. So, is the NAF the recognized accrediting body? Are their standards as good as those of the JCAH? I surely don’t know but wonder if Six Pack’s comment that it is a case of, “the fox guarding the hen house” may not be too far off.

    Moon, you state that, “I don’t believe clinics that provide abortion services should come under any more scrutiny than any other medical facility.” Well most other clinics are under the scrutiny of the JCAH and shouldn’t these clinics be accredited by the organization that accredits almost every other medical facility? If the JCAH doesn’t do this, shouldn’t the public demand it?

    1. If I knew what JCAH was, I might be able to answer that. I don’t do code.

      I believe all medical facilities should be treated the same by outside agencies. No more, no less.

      Sure, go ahead and let the public demand whatever they want. How many complaints do you think an ordinary clinic is going to get in a day? 100? 200? Surely you are kidding me.

  47. @Wolverine
    NAF is an organization you join if you are an abortion provider. You meet their standards. I expect these substandard places aren’t members of NAF in the first place.

    I am fairly positive NAF has no policing powers over clinics that are not members. Those that are would lose their NAF accreditation if they didn’t meet standards.

    It isn’t perfect and I wouldn’t have brought it up as a policing agency. Its more of a standards agency.

  48. Six Pack

    As requested.

    http://www.vdh.state.va.us/OLC/AcuteCare/abortionfacilities.htm

    I can’t find the actual inspection reports however. They have been handed out to council members during citizen time.

    1. Thank you 6 pack. Now, is this link you left just general? Help me understand here. For the record, I am not “defending” the local clinic. I am speaking in general based on the information I know.

      If Amethyst has been cited by the state, then there should be a record somewhere. Records can be altered.

      Actually, I just don’t think it is the job of the City Council to involve themselves. They are a political body. If there are violations then I would hope the state would be all over them.

      6 pack, my problem is that I have been involved in this type of activism for a long time. I know the tricks and deceit pulled by anti abortion activists to present their side in a positive light and all abortion in a negative light. I am sure I don’t know ALL the tricks however. That is why I am skeptical of information that cannot be verified.

      I have personally witnessed some of the harassment played out at this local clinic.

  49. Ray Beverage

    @George S. Harris
    For Moon, JCAH is “The Joint Commission” (their newer, shorter name) for accrediation of hospitals and healthcare organizations.

    George, the Commission’s primary focus is on facilities which perform services and are paid via Medicare/Medicaid. There are two other national organizations that are also approved by the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) to certify Hospitals, Ambulatory Centers, and Nursing Homes. That leaves a lot of speciality areas, and NAF entered the picture to set practice standards and guidelines for abortions, and also to serve as a national clearing house of clinics/providers.

    Moon is correct in #112 about policing powers – only those related to Medicare/Medicaid have any penalities within and that comes from CMS. Another example like NAF is for Theraputics – the American Physical Therapy Association sets the standards and practice guidelines.

    1. Ray, thanks for the info and thanks for explaining the part I was struggling with.

      Medicare and Medicaid would definitely not come into play here. Medicare for obvious reasons (I HOPE) and Medicaid because it is forbidden by law. However, it can be used for contraception and non-abortion related health care.

  50. Wolverine

    I see your point about NAF, Moon, As I recall now, Gosnell had an NAF inspection only as part of his own request to join the organization. That came out in the grand jury testimony, I believe. But the problems with the clinic in my hometown suggests that some kind of closer coordination between local and state health departments and associations like NAF might help to keep the bad places from slipping through the cracks.

    1. I think all medical facilities could use something like this. We all know of people who practice bad medicine or bad dentistry. We shouldn’t have to wait until the state pulls someone’s license.

    2. I don’t believe they allowed him to become a member. (nor should they have)

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