Washington Post editorial: (excerpt)

Mr. Obama rightly expressed his concern: “I will not stand for it. Not as commander in chief, but also not as an American. None of us should.” He promised that people would be held accountable for any wrongdoing and any deficiencies would be addressed. At the same time, the president properly cautioned that the facts still have yet to be determined; investigation by the VA into a number of facilities and a broader White House review are underway, with preliminary reports expected next week.

That the extent of wrongdoing is unclear doesn’t seem to matter much to those more interested in scoring political points. How else to explain the knee-jerk calls, mainly by Republicans in the House and Senate, for the ouster of Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric K. Shinseki or the ill-advised and punitive legislation aimed at VA workers?

Mr. Shinseki’s contributions include Army service that saw him losing part of his foot to a land mine in Vietnam and his success as secretary in reducing veteran homelessness and expanding services. But they apparently aren’t as important as the fact that his understated demeanor was derided by a late-night comedian. It’s beyond us to imagine how denying bonuses to VA employees would aid recruitment of the very professionals who might help reduce the backlogs that cause the delays in getting appointments.

No doubt the VA has its problems. Delayed treatment has been an issue for decades, and the back-to-back wars of Iraq and Afghanistan with their unique set of injuries have created a further strain. But as was made clear in recent testimony to the Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, studies have shown that the VA system, which serves almost 6.5 million veterans annually, as a whole outperforms the rest of the health care system by just about every metric. Surveys also show that veterans give VA hospitals and clinics a higher customer satisfaction than patients give private-sector hospitals.

It’s important that the current problems be addressed. But they also ought to be kept in context and veterans not made, as the president put it, into “another political football.”

The VA has been rife with outrageous incidents ever since I can remember.  It’s the classic case of one “awww sh!t!” ruining  “100 atta-boys.”  Most people get great service from the VA and from their hospitals and clinics.  However, when the VA is bad, its very very bad.  Remember the scene in “Born on the 4th of July?”  Remember the scandal at Walter Reed in 2007 when a certain section of the hospital was filthy with rodent doo or something?

Why is it that Americans, in particular Republicans, start immediately calling for someone to be fired?  What good does that do?  How about a thorough investigation into what’s wrong with the VA and fixing it?  It serves nearly 7 million people.  There are bound to be a few rough patches in the road.  Let’s find them and fix them.  It isn’t Obama’s fault or Eric Shineseki’s fault.  Neither person is omnipotent.  Yea yea yea, it happened on their watch.  (and on Bushes’, Clinton’s, Bush again’s, Reagan’s, Carter’s,  Ford’s,  Johnson’s, Kennedy’s, Eisenhower’s, Truman’s, FDR’s….you get the picture…)

Perhaps before sending Obama on a firing spree, let’s get to the bottom of the problem, once and for all.  No more Wack a Mole.

33 Thoughts to “VA firings? Not so fast!”

  1. Jack Brown

    “Remember the scandal at Walter Reed in 2007 when a certain section of the hospital was filthy with rodent doo or something?”

    Just curious, what does Walter Reed have to do with the VA?

    1. Military medicine. They aren’t unrelated. You can get VA services at Walter Reed, or you used to be able to.

  2. blue

    @Jack Brown

    Nothing ,except that in severeal congressional hearing WR officials blamed poor contract performance and corruption, only find out – later – and after all kinds of government wide contractor reforms were issued, that the contractors were not responsible for the wing in discussion (Feds were) and that two general officers knew it at the time of their testimony. They were allowed to retirte early.

    1. Blue, will you say that in English? Trying to follow you and it isn’t working.

  3. Kelly_3406

    I do not blame Obama for this …. yet. The VA has been a continual problem for years, but Shinseki still has to go. No matter what he accomplished in the military, he has failed as Secretary of the VA. The WP seems to think no action should be taken unless wrongdoing is proven. But the fact of the matter is that Shinseki has been completely ineffective overseeing the VA, and for that reason, he should be fired. It’s that simple.

    Obama needs to get someone else in there who can do the job. If that person fails, he should be fired too.

    If Obama does not replace Shinseki, I will then blame the POTUS for the VA scandal.

    1. I am not sure firing people works. These people are not omnipotent.

  4. Wolve

    They already “fired” Dr. Petzel, the VA Undersecretary for Health, and stated that they did so because of this problem. But ooops, he was going to retire in 2014 anyway, and a normal search for his replacement was already underway before the Phoenix situation even broke.

  5. Wolve

    Cute little gambit by the WaPo editorialist: “…the knee-jerk calls, mainly by Republicans in the House and Senate, for the ouster of…”

    The American Legion, the largest of all the veterans organizations, called for the firing of General Shinseki. The editorialist might have mentioned that — the Numero Uno veterans organization in the country calling for the firing of a Purple Heart veteran is no small thing.

    1. I certainly wouldn’t quote the American legend as the end all be all. I k now plenty of people, all veterans, who wouldn’t darken its doors.

  6. Wolve

    And, as a genealogist, I have seen thousands of vets who were members and who liked to frequent the Legion and/or VFW halls for a good time with buddies. What you are likely seeing are some Vietnam and post-Vietnam vets who, for personal reasons, just seem not to be attracted to that kind of comraderie. I know that many vets so hated Vietnam that they wanted to forget their service, if they could. All vet organizations have faced a recruitment problem of sorts in the last few decades. That certainly does not mean that the Legion is ignored when they start talking. Especially in a case like this when it is their membership which is being screwed at a time when they have a large demand for health services. In fact, Jay Carney tried to cite the Legion’s response to the “firing” of Dr. Petzel in a positive light vis-a-vs the White House statements on that termination. Unfortunately, however, somebody misread the Legion response; and Carney wound up embarrassing himself.

    1. Actually, I was thinking of a different generation. I don’t really see what a genealogist has to do with the American Legion or the VFW.

      My dad, uncle, and a bunch of their friends wouldn’t have been caught dead in there. Basically they thought it was a gathering place for blowhards. I believe that might be a direct quote.

  7. middleman

    I agree this could be a major problem, depending on the facts that come out of the investigation, and at first I thought that the obvious first move would be to fire the guy in charge, Shinseki. But after delving into the situation a little further, possible data-altering notwithstanding, it appears that Shinseki has done a pretty good job, cutting the backlog in half even after Obama increased the number of claims dramatically by allowing Agent Orange and PTSD claims.

    As I said, the investigation may indicate otherwise, but so as of now I would hold fire on Shinseki.

    I have to say, though, yet another instance of Obama having to clean up after Bush (and Nixon!).

  8. middleman

    …and keep in mind that the actual care at the VA is recognized as pretty darn good by everyone. I do applaud Obama for sticking by his man in the face of the typical GOP catcalls. Can McCain GET any more ridiculous?

    1. I applaud him also for sticking by his man. Shinseki has done a great deal to help vets.

      This shotgun approach to firing the top guy regardless of issue is just plain stupid and McCain is just turning into a ridiculous old man. I am done with him or even pretending his has relevance.

  9. George S. Harris

    And bless ol’ John Boehner’s heart–he has already come out and tearfully said he doesn’t think the IG is capable of figuring out what is wrong. Thanks for politicizing the whole thing John. Here is a man who served all of 8 weeks in the Navy but was discharged because of a bad back–may have been a yellow streak or something. Not sure. Am beginning to think he is living proof that a$$holes can exist with no other visible means of life support.

  10. Kelly_3406

    middleman :
    …and keep in mind that the actual care at the VA is recognized as pretty darn good by everyone. I do applaud Obama for sticking by his man in the face of the typical GOP catcalls. Can McCain GET any more ridiculous?

    Recognized by everyone for providing good care …. except by Vets. I think I am entitled to VA care (actually I know I am because I got a nice letter from the VA begging me to sign up), but I have no intention of ever setting foot in one. There have been too many stories for years about the poor care.

    It does not really matter whether Shinseki was directly responsible, or not. In order to change the environment of an organization, the top dog has to go. Then a new leader gets brought in with a mandate to clean house. Real change cannot be affected if the guy at the top stays on.

    1. Then top dog going is a stupid way to do things. Let the top dog keep getting things cleaned up.

      Most vets I know have rated their VA services very high, higher than private health care as a matter of fact, from what I have read.

  11. middleman

    @Kelly_3406

    Kelly, by “everyone,” I’m primarily referring to servicemen and women who’ve actually had care there. I’ve heard the stories from the past, too, but more recently the situation, particularly under Shinseki, has apparently improved. http://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2537

    Does the VA need to “clean house,” or does the whole system need to be re-evaluated? Is the funding being provided to adequately address the needs of all the added Vietnam-era Agent Orange victims and the PSTD victims and the thousands added from Afganistan and Iraq? Some are hell-bent on sending our youngsters off for questionable goals, but loathe to spend the money to deal with the human costs that result.

  12. Kelly_3406

    @middleman

    At least the in-patient polling appears to have been biased toward a favorable response for the VA. According to the description of the poll (from your link), approximately 3/4 of the poll respondents had received emergency care. However, the standard of satisfaction for emergency care is fairly low — if the medical care alleviates the emergent condition, the patient tends to be fairly pleased. Conversely, if the care is not satisfactory, then at least some of the elderly veterans probably died and thus could not have participated in the polling. So the poll does not include input from those that received the worst care due to the excessive waits, mis-diagnosed conditions, or bad procedures that have recently come to light.

    1. How does that compare to non VA medical services?

  13. Kelly_3406

    @middleman

    As to your second point, you are clearly correct that the VA does not receive adequate funding. However, that does not explain why the VA offices cooked the books to hide the long waits. As the waits for medical appointments became excessively long, the VA could have documented the problem, reported it through Shinseki to Congress, and requested more funding. Then it would have been on Congress if nothing was done. Instead, the VA chose to cover it up. That is indicative of severe management problems that require heads to roll.

    1. Let’s not say THE VA. I think certain sites did that. Maybe they were under the gun to produce more. Who knows.

      Why do some teachers falsify standardized tests? Do you fire the superintendent? Only if he or she knowingly allows the practice to go on. Otherwise, that individual has no control over what he or she doesn’t know. You don’t know what you don’t know.

  14. Wolve

    Moon-howler :Actually, I was thinking of a different generation. I don’t really see what a genealogist has to do with the American Legion or the VFW.
    My dad, uncle, and a bunch of their friends wouldn’t have been caught dead in there. Basically they thought it was a gathering place for blowhards. I believe that might be a direct quote.

    Simple. The kind of thing which often appears in the obituary of a military veteran. Frequently included in the obit by the family, especially if membership was important to the deceased. Along with the military record itself, we make it part of their entry in the family tree. That and other life details give substance and body to the entries beyond just dates of birth, marriage, and death.

    1. Thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense. I couldn’t see the connection.

      I am concerned that now everyone emails, there will be no written record of every day lives. No family and friends snail mail. We should probably all start scrambling to make some sort of written record of our existence past birth, marriage and death. Even our pictures are digital. How will those be preserved a century down the road?

  15. middleman

    Kelly_3406 :
    @middleman
    At least the in-patient polling appears to have been biased toward a favorable response for the VA. According to the description of the poll (from your link), approximately 3/4 of the poll respondents had received emergency care. However, the standard of satisfaction for emergency care is fairly low — if the medical care alleviates the emergent condition, the patient tends to be fairly pleased. Conversely, if the care is not satisfactory, then at least some of the elderly veterans probably died and thus could not have participated in the polling. So the poll does not include input from those that received the worst care due to the excessive waits, mis-diagnosed conditions, or bad procedures that have recently come to light.

    Kelly, I’m not sure where you’re getting that 3/4 of the respondents had emergency care, but you may be looking at the statistic showing that approx. 2/3rds entered the hospital through the emergency room, but these were still inpatients- admitted to the hospital. Care is care, and I agree that the “cooking the books-excessive wait” problem is a separate issue from care once admitted, but my point is that the VA is doing a good job on care for those patients admitted. Mis-diagnosed conditions and bad procedures WOULD have been captured in the survey. Obviously, dead patients can’t participate in the polling, but you also can’t assume that they would have commented negatively, in other words that the VA “caused” their deaths.

  16. middleman

    Kelly_3406 :
    @middleman
    As to your second point, you are clearly correct that the VA does not receive adequate funding. However, that does not explain why the VA offices cooked the books to hide the long waits. As the waits for medical appointments became excessively long, the VA could have documented the problem, reported it through Shinseki to Congress, and requested more funding. Then it would have been on Congress if nothing was done. Instead, the VA chose to cover it up. That is indicative of severe management problems that require heads to roll.

    I think the point here is that they MAY have cooked the books due to pressure from above to reduce backlogs without the adequate funding to address the problem. I’m not excusing what they did, if they did that, and I agree that heads should roll. I’m just saying that we should take a holistic approach to the overall problem and not just react in a knee-jerk fashion and immediately fire a guy that seems to have done a pretty good overall job. This would be a win for those who want to embarrass the president and score political points, but wouldn’t deal with a situation that has a long history. Going back to the Revolutionary War, we have failed our veterans on numerous occasions in numerous ways. We should work to get it right once and for all.

    1. Even the Corp of Discovery, which was run para-military fashion, got screwed, including Captain Merriwether Lewis.

      Pervasive.

  17. Rick Bentley

    As to whether this is a scandal, I tend to agree with Stephen Colbert’s character who threw a celebration on-air the other night at a real bona fide scandal occurring on Obama’s watch, after years of waiting and hoping for one. It’s a disgrace. Probably not a lot of poilitical mileage to it though, and on a related note …

    Jon Stewart’s show had a very interesting segment on America’s history, century after century, of our screwing over veterans after they served, and not fulfilling our obligations.

    The root of this problem is simple. It IS money. Waiting times to see physicians are about the number of physicians on staff. We don’t have enough. We won’t spend the money to put enough doctors on staff that veterans can get the care they need.

    I don’t know how messed up the VA’s infrastructure is, or how much waste there is at the bureaucratic level, But surely wait times are primarily a function of whether there are enough doctors on staff.

    The American people like to live in this fantasy land where everything is the fault of some bureaucrat in Washington, and things should cost less, and they shouldn’t pay taxes. We cut taxes by 5% for the rich poor and middle-class alike, then are shocked when we fall into debt. We don’t fund the VA at the level it rqeuires, and then are surprised when veterans don’t get the care they need. We create elaborate fantasies where these things are someone else’s fault, where they don’t correlate to the bottom-line society we’ve created where nothing is sacred and every budget should be slashed.

    There’s scandal here about the Obama Administration’s ineptness. The bigger scandal to me is the way we live in a nation of 300 million people hypnotized by their own bu**sh**, looking around waiting to see how Mommy and Daddy can fix the problems they create.

    1. Well, you just hit a homerun out of the ball park if you ask me, Rick.

      “Cut Spending” isn’t always such a good idea, especially after a two front war that has lasted for over a decade.

  18. Rick Bentley

    As to the narrow issue of fixing the VA, people need to give a damn … enough to force Obama to change top management and bring in some capable people who will work to straighten things out. He seems content enough with the status quo, which is disgusting. Unless people on the left become disgusted about this, this won’t change.

    The guy’s working to extend health care coverage to all Americans, while veterans are waiting months for appointments … it’s unconscionable. It reflects poorly not just on Obama, but on our nation as a whole and on the priorities that we communicate to our politicians.

    1. Agreement has stopped. There have been all sorts of improvements made in the VA. Find out why this was happening and have the top guy fix it. How hard is that. If it is money, then demand Congress come up with the money or keep pointing at them until they do.

  19. Rick Bentley

    One would naively hope that this could be the first issue in a long, long time that Democrats and Republicans could agree on, and quietly fix? I won’t hold my breath.

  20. Rick Bentley

    The idea that the current head of the VA should remain in charge … insane to me.

    This isn’t just some single aspect of the job that’s been boned up, as with Sibelius not knowing how to build a website. This guy’s in charge of an organization that is systematically failing at its core mission, coast to coast. The leadership is disgraceful. If Obama thinks that this is the guy to fix the problem, that’s extremely naive I think. An extremely limited and lazy worldview.

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