Both McDonnells have been found guilty of conspiracy. They were found guilty of most of the 14 counts.
The courtroom became the scene of many emotional outbursts and a flood of tears as the verdict was read.
The media is describing this situation as a dramatic fall from grace. At one point, he was being courted as a vice presidential candidate.
McDonnell was the most crooked and dishonest man who ever held the Virginia governor’s office.
Oh I think a lot of them have been more dishonest.
I am not sure McDonnell is all that dishonest. I think his wife is grabby, greedy and a lot of other things. McDonnell really broke no Virginia laws. All his crimes seem to have been federal.
Virginia laws MUST be overhauled.
Anti-Family Values. He should have taken the deal and explained it was to protect his family. Now he has a multiple conviction and a soap opera and a terrible impact on his family. Soon to be a movie, no doubt.
I feel horribly sorry for him. I do not feel sorry for his wife. My feelings make no sense. I never felt he was a bad person. I do feel she is an evil bitch. She mistreated other people.
Sorry for him? Really? He intentionally dragged (drug?) his wife and family through the muck and exposed all her faults to the world while pretending that their marriage was a farce. He abandoned her in a time of great need during the trial while hiding behind a priest. Made the kids choose which parent to walk into court with each day. All to avoid a misdemeanor charge?
Whatever he did as far as a two-bit money-grubbing governor pales in comparison to his failings as a man and husband and father in my book.
He may get off on appeal, but he can never live down the shame he’s brought upon himself. What a loser.
Funny. It is Maureen that I see as scum. Her behavior compromised her husband.
Perhaps we are hardest on our own gender.
I just see him as a chump.
We may have never known of or been subjected to this soap opera had the McDonnell family just followed the common sense advice of not pi$$ing off the chef. He found that there can be much worse consequences than someone spitting in your food or dropping it on the floor.
I don’t feel sorry for him. He threw his whole family, especially his wife, under the bus when he could have taken the plea deal. He’s a coward.
If he was “the most crooked,” then I guess we’re doing pretty well as a Commonwealth. Really, what it came down to was a vendetta. He just got caught. Our current governor had his share of influence-peddling hijinks when he worked on Bill Clinton’s campaign.
What vendetta? I don’t blame the chef. He squealed because they told him to take the food as an exchange for his services.
Clinton campaign? How many years ago was that? Where are the indictments?
He presented himself as an upstanding, Christian family values man. It was all a lie. Typical of Christian conservatives.
I think when one is set up high on a pedestal (regardless of who sets ones self up there), it is a hard fall. I don’t think he deliberately lied about the values. I think he just had feet of clay like the rest of us. I don’t think his self reality filters worked real well.
That’s quite a wide net you cast, Judgey–um–Starry.
I hope no one is feeling triumphant about this. This is a simple manifestation of a complicated conceit – that there is a “Virginia Way” that protects the Commonwealth against corruption and perversion of governmental processes. The breeding ground of the conceit is the General Assembly, where members fancy that because we require disclosure of gifts, we need not worry about undue influence being wielded. This means that all the people who run through the GA conveyor belt on the way to statewide office get accustomed to being able to receive all sorts of favors in goods and services, but who split hairs on what has to be reported (if you give me something, I have to report it – give it to my sister/daughter/son/nephew, I don’t have to report it). When one juxtaposes this with the delusion that capping their pay at ridiculously low levels makes them virtuous, one has the perfect recipe for delusional under-the-table corruption roiling around beneath sanctimonious honorifics to the Virginia Way.
The McDonnells are products of this system. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect they were not the worst, and that their sensitivities to the problems, like so many others’, had been deadened by the time he spent working his way up through the labyrinth of the GA to statewide office. It’s very sad, because I do think Bob McDonnell did a by-and-large good job of running a good government while he was Governor (I recognize in advance controversies like the ultrasound issue, but I am speaking en grosse re the overall administration of the State during his Governorship). I think he sincerely wanted to be a good Governor and to elevate himself above the shallow nonsense of campaign rhetoric that we all seem fated to live with to eternity. To a considerable extent he succeeded until these old habits of easy hobnobbing brought him down.
There will be appeals, and there are issues that merit further examination by the courts. It is completely unclear to me what Williams received in return for his largesse that he could not have gotten without it as a Virginia businessman and what he could not have gotten from any Administration of either party.
In the meantime, we really have to look at ourselves and our state government with a very cold eye and demand that this Richmond circus come into the modern world of responsible management and governance. As DJ Rippert at Bacon’s says many times, it really is a Clown Show down there, and this is just one ring of a multi-ring circus.
Agree, Scout. I do blame the “system” and Virginia laws more than I do Bob McDonnell. Mrs. McD is another story. Except for the issue of reproductive rights, I think he did a pretty decent job of governing also. I do give him an F+ on reproductive rights, however. Education, a C (he clearly didn’t grasp what giving schools grades would do) and he tried to do something about transportation. B
He should have fired Helen Vargas over the UVA debacle. I am aware she wasn'[t his appointee.
Now maybe our brave and illustrious FBI can move on to the much bigger case of Lois Lerner and company. Ya think? Huh, maybe?
HUH? Are you assuming that they can only work on one thing at a time?
Bigger case? That is really screwed up.
At this point, Wolve, how do we know that it is “much bigger”, Wolve? If it is, it is. But I don’t see that one issue is investigated at the expense of the other or discern any particular link between them. How does that work? Were the FBI agents on the McDonnell case tied up with the McDonnells and only now can turn their personal attention to the IRS? How many FBI agents are there? Three? Four? More?
Oh, knock it off, Scoutie. You know damned well it is much bigger. My goodness, lad, have you completely lost your nose for sarc?
Was that partisan sarcasm?
Backpedaling?
Is the WH Lincoln Bedroom still for rent these days? And what the heck ever happened to that SEC investigation of MacAullife and GreenTech?
Nothing. Let’s talk about the McDonnells. Were you surprised? I was and I wasn’t. After hearing that trial…some stuff was hard to deny. I really don’t want them to go to prison. His political life is over. He will never dig himself out from under the fines they will get. I think he has been punished enough.
I don’t like his politics but I don’t think he is a bad human being.
It strikes me as a separate issue, Wolve. If you see a connection, your way ahead of me. Ditto the White House bedroom issues.
@Moon-howler
The thing that really surprised me was the long set of instructions given to the jury by the judge. Seems like he virtually ordered up a guilty verdict a la old Judge Roy Bean of Langtry, Texas. He defined corruption so closely that I think the case may well be overturned on appeal. And no Virginia laws were violated. But, what the hey, the Guv put himself in the hole by taking loans and watches and wedding donations, etc. He should have known better. He should have known that his opponents would make hay of it, even if just out of appearances.
That’s it for me. This case seems sort of like chump change. Johnnie Williams sure didn’t get much for his money. Now, corruption in my book is when old Joe Kennedy bought almost the whole state of West Virginia for JFK in the 1960 Dem primaries. Or when the late, great Harry Truman was elevated to a judgeship and then to the US Senate by the, ahem, persuasive power of the Pendergast machine and their Mafia allies in Kansas City. There was actually a day in KC about that time when the top Mafia guy was assassinated by a rival while the former was “working” in the local Dem party headquarters. Now, those were the days, my friend…..
You keep saying “his opponents.” His chef turned him in. He was pissed because someone had him fired for stealing food. He had been told by someone in the chain of command to take food in exchange for his services for private function work. That just doesn’t seem very political to me.
I didn’t see the list of instructions. That would have been a difficult jury to sit on. I am surprised they came back with verdicts so soon.
@Moon-howler
You bet it was partisan sarc. Give us Lois Lerner and whoever gave her the orders. No more chump change. We want bigtime.
You want all the liberal organizations that also got stonewalled oir is just just a tea party thing?
There is so much abuse of tax exception there you could choke on it.
Assistant Attorney General Leslie R. Caldwell of the DOJ’s Criminal Division: “Today’s conviction should send a message that corruption in any form, at any level of government, will not be tolerated.”
Good. Now, give us the charges against Lois Lerner and her buddies.
What party does Lois Lerner belong to? hmmmmmm…
This thread is about the McDonnells and Virginia ethics. Continued attempts at deflection don’t make the situation go away. It really doesn’t matter about civil servants at the federal level as far as Virginia goes.
I think the whole McDonnell situation is horribly sad. I don’t think they were intentionally corrupt even. I think things in Richmond are so undefined that what they did seemed right to them. Call it a sense of entitlement perhaps. Virginia politicians just seem to have their own little slush funds that follow them around.
I really don’t want to see the McDonnells in prison. That is over-kill.
Not the Tea Party, that’s for sure certain.
This thread is about the McDonnells and Virginia politics.
You are obviously trying to hi-jack the thread. Take your concerns to the open thread.
Not trying to deflect anything. I just think this scandal is rather puny with regard to the amount of cash passed around and the results of that passage. Charlie Rangel’s finances over the past decade, for instance, were so tangled that they can give you a headache just reading about them. At one time, when Charlie fessed up just a bit on his true taxable income, his net worth actually doubled. Now, THAT is a sweet scandal. Old Charlie got bounced around on the Hill, but instead of trial for tax evasion he got himself re-elected. Talk about being a laughing stock. Try the Bronx.
Then there was good old Governor Rob in Illinois convicted of trying to sell a US Senate seat to the high bidder. (It looks sort of like Illinois governors from both parties progress nowadays from the state house to the pen.) And Governor Eliot Spitzer, the old attorney general, getting caught whoring around, while ex-Gov. and ex-Senator Jon Corzine of NJ gets accused of losing the money of MF Global investors to the tune of $1.6 billion. Now we are talking money! And that probably includes the prices of Gov. Spitzer’s erstwhile fancy ladies.
I mean, $165,000 all told, a fancy watch, some shoes, a couple of designer dresses, a relatively small loan, wedding cake and catering, a drive in somebody else’s Ferrari at somebody else’s vacation home, whatever — peanuts compared to the “real good” scandals. You’re right, Moon. Never should have happened if the Guv had kept his brain in gear. But they shouldn’t go to jail for this stuff. They’ve already paid a big price.
Yes, you are attempting to deflect this topic by bringing up national democrats who you feel are corrupt. We are discussing the McDonnells. Period. All these people you want to bring up are yesterday’s news and have nothing to do with the McDonnells. Take the old news to the Open Thread. That’s why its there.
Meanwhile, I am going to assume you have said the cash amounts are small potatoes. Does the amount of money really matter?
Is the degree of an ethical breach based on the amount of cash involved? From a purely ethical view no. Are there degrees?
You can rationalize away pretty much all you chose to which is what you’re doing.
I don’t think the amount should matter. I do think the amount should perhaps dictate punishment length and severity but not guilt or innocence.
I have very mixed feelings about this case. I don’t want to see him in prison. I think maybe he was just at the misdemeanor level.
He should have known better but he obviously didn’t. I don’t see him at felony level.
Family values swamp of decadence, eh W? But your ‘tea party corruption is so much better (as in more acceptable) than liberal corruption’ is such a wobbly spin on this story.
@Wolve
If Darrel Issa thought for one second that there was a there there with Lois Lerner – she would have immunity and he would IYAS (Issue Yet Another Subpoena).
It’s ridiculous, it’s chump change, but certainly they should be prosecuted for it. It’s reminiscent of the Clintons – small scale sins, but far out of control.
More than anything it’s a sad personal story. Bob McDonnell used to sit and talk about family values and traditional marriage – it was his raison d’ete. Now we can all see that his attempt to make marriage the centerpiece of his life – to living the myths of Christian marriage – lead to living ridiculously, not to the greater glory of Christ. He lived in a state of denial, and eventually crashed and burned. No wonder he’s sobbing in court.
Behind every strong man is …. wait, let me revise it …
Behind some strong men are women who helped them to be strong.
Behind some strong men are women who attempted to satisfy their venal appetites, chewing up and spitting out chunks of their husband in the process.
Such is the nature of marriage. You put your d*** in and you take your chances. If you MUST get married, for God’s sake do a prenup.
(I didn’t actually get burned that badly in my marriage – but I COULD have. Marriage is a very dangerous endeavor for a man [or a higher earning woman]).
Rick, I am laughing like crazy over here. “You put your d*** in and you take your chances.”
I am just sitting here thinking, maybe more men ought to get smart like you have. Maybe we ought to all wear signs saying exactly what you have said.
Thank you for making my day.
So, yeah, I do buy into Bob McDonnell as a victim more or less. The story doesn’t make much sense any other way. He had a naive view of women and of marriage, and didn’t want to let go of his marriage.
I see him as a victim also, and all this time hating his politics. I have great ambivalence about this case. I actually don’t want either of them to go to prison. I especially don’t want him in prison. I really don;’t like her as a person. I still don’t want her to go to prison. How about some major community service?
Troll@Wolve Trying to change the subject to Lois Kerner is trolling
I don’t think that’s trolling. It’s corruption on a larger scale, as yet unpunished.
most of us forget that there was a civil case against Star Scientific regarding taxes that was slow-walked through the process and also that VRS bought stock – I wonder how many sub $5 stocks met their buying criteria…..(I bet one).
That tock buy just burns the hell out of me. Pat is right. one!
I would love to see them go to prison.
This is something about America, and Obama’s Administration, and Eric Holder’s philosophy, that I abhor. The way we don’t send “white collar” criminals to jails, but just fine them and put them on probation. Two Americas, two sets of rules; one for the top half of society and one for the bottom half.
Yes and no. I would say there are two Americas when it comes to money. People with money often don’t go to prison or spend as much time in prison if they go. Attorneys cost money. However, What did the McDonnells do that warrants them going to prison to spend time with gang members, drug dealers and mafia members?
Did they rob anyone? Did they burglarize? Did they rape someone or shoot anyone? Did they embezzle? Are they pedophiles?
The point remains, while they might have used poor judgement, they didn’t break any Virginia laws.
People used to go to prison for a lot less than this. And so it should be.
Poor people used to go to prison for stealing a roll or a loaf of bread. Let’s not look to the past for the “right way” to do things.
People also would have been given commendations for what some people go to prison for today.
Prison is stupid as a punishment. It makes sense for violent people in the hope that after 10 years or so the brain will have developed some self control. It makes sense for gangs because it prevents the criminal organization from operating. For others a gps bracelet, probation and a stiff fine is a lot cheaper all around.
I understand keeping harmful people away from society.
The McDonnells aren’t going to be harming anyone. It is a waste of taxpayer money. They will not be rehabilitated. What’s to rehabilitate.
I still blame the state for having so few guidelines as far as crime goes. I just see very bad judgement. Everyone has exercised bad judgement in their lives.
Meh….I would say that Lois Lerner has got something to hide. I notice that the IRS has now claimed that the emails of five more employees involved in this business have been “lost” through computer crashes. How doggoned convenient. Now, if the FBI were to be as aggressive in this case as it was with the earth shaking McDonnell case…..sarc, sarc, sarc.
Heh, heh — Democrat thy name is Tammany.
Oh, poooh! Just a comparison between the amateurs and the pros. At least McDonnell didn’t get caught with cash loot stashed in his freezer Louisiana-style. All the smirking Virginia libs have had their fun with the McDonnells for quite a long while now. Time to remind them of their own unsavory past.
Have a good weekend.
Eddie, you’re as LOL over here as you are over there — if you get my gist.
How much comparative slammer time do you get if you rob a bank or shoplift a six-pack of beer?
And, now that we have sliced and diced both the McDonnells, time to move on to Joe Morrissey, D-Henrico, in the Va. House of Delegates. Indicted by a special grand jury in June and tentatively scheduled for trial on 15 December. Five felony charges allegedly involving a 17-year-old girl working in his law firm: supervisor indecent liberties with a minor; electronic solicitation of a minor; possession of child pornography; distribution of child pornography; contributing to the deliquency of a minor. Joe swears he is being framed and won’t quit the House. They have asked the judge to dismiss. No response yet.
Maybe some Christmas holiday fare for the bloggers?
The McDonnells are the topic. Help me understand why you refuse to talk about them, Wolve. If fact, you seem to want to talk about just about everyone but the McDonnells. This is the first time in Virginia history that a governor has been indicted, much less convicted. No, I am not going to move on.
Were you surprised by the verdict? Do you think they will do jail time? Do you think they SHOULD do jail time? Do you think prison would be overkill?
@Rick Bentley Christians are fallible human beings, and they tend to recognize that fact. They work towards a higher ideal, and they sometimes (often) fail. That’s not hypocrisy at all. It’s called being human.
Maybe we should all just set the bar really low and just keep racing each other to the bottom.
And sometimes, Emma, Christians are in a state of denial and end up doing bad or crazy things because they want to keep their world view intact.
“Christians are fallible human beings, and they tend to recognize that fact. ” Less so, on average, than other people. Which is presumably a natural consequence of choosing to believe that God is talking to you.
How large is your sample size?
7 billion active samples, plus billions more now deceased!
But maybe I’m wrong – maybe actually believing that God talks to you – and not to other people – is going to make somebody MORE willing to admit they might be wrong?
If i were going to compare “Christians” (which is hard to do because there’s no precise definition – it’s a self-identifying term) against the rest of us, on average, I’d say that the Christians are :
Generally better at positive thinking
Generally more stubborn and resistant to change
Generally more charitable
Generally easier to manipulate (in politics and in other ways)
I know some people who think they get to decide who is a Christian and who isn’t. I have actually been challenged.
Are you comparing Christians to other faiths or to people who do not profess to be Christians.
How is it that Wolve gets chewed out for bringing up the sins of the rock throwers but Mr. Bentley and Starry are given leeway to put their anti-Christian bigotry on display. Shameful, I say. Shameful. I shall submit a complaint to the Supreme Blog Council.
Who chewed you out. I would think everyone would be used to Rick and Starry by now.
@Rick Bentley
I will look forward to reading your peer-reviewed study.
“Are you comparing Christians to other faiths or to people who do not profess to be Christians.”
That’s a good question. I was comparing them to non-believers.
Heck, now I have to recalibrate my statistics and go through another round of peer review.
Let us know your findings.
@Rick Bentley
Don’t forget to compare them to those whose faith puts Man as the Supreme Being…..that too is a religion.
What do you call those people?
@Moon-howler
Idiots.