Fall here. Most of us have a yard-full of leaves that have fallen much earlier than usual. 29 and 66 are lined with leaf watchers, many headed to the skyline drive to observe Mother Nature at her very best.
Its time to plant bulbs. Iris, daffodils and tulips all get planted in the fall. In spring we are always surprised and treated to the joy of our efforts.
Where are you leaf-watching? What are you planting?
@Furby McPhee
What an idiot – I am sure they were playing on the words before the speech, and it slipped out. Gaffe my ass.
Kinda made his sound like Eric Bolling. Idiot.
This just in –
The Pope has agreed that Evolution and the Big Bang are true and are not incompatible with Creationism.
At the same time the Republican Party still says that there is no Climate Change and that they are not scientists.
If the Pope can go against the Catholic teachings of thousands of years, why can’t the Republicans go against a few years of denial?
The Pope is cooler.
@Pat.Herve
Because Evolution and the Big Bang are actually science, while the current Climate Change theories are treated as holy writ and political activism.
I’m waiting on them to present a falsifiable theory. And to explain the halt in warming since 1998, that even the pro-warming scientists admit to, even though it contradicts ALL of their predictions.
90% of climate scientists believe we are in the process of climate change caused by man.
I don’t believe that the Church (at least the post-Vatican II version that I grew up in) every really denied evolution and big bang or ever really took a stand, but has left it as a matter of faith to the people. This is really nothing new.
I spent 18 years in parochial schools and was never taught creationism. Big Bang was always part of the science curriculum. My parents and theirs (in the US) were taught the same thing. What are the thousand years of teachings that Pope Francis is going against?
It was only in 1950 under Pope Pius XII that the Church was open to the possibility that Evolution took place. And Pope Benedict was taking a more closed approach. Pope Francis is making a more bold statement – saying that Creationism and Evolution are not at odds with each other but can co-exist. A real possibility that combines the two.
Emma – you are most likely correct, but Pope Francis seems to be saying that both are true, while before it was that they did not deny evolution.
Lyssa –
If you were in a Catholic Parochial school you should have been taught Creationism – I certainly was. Until the 1960’s there were many school districts that forbid the teaching of evolution. There are still battles going on as to if evolution or creationism or both should be taught in public schools.
I went to school mainly in Virginia. I was always taught from an evolution perspective. I am not sure that anyone used the term evolution but it left its footprint.
I was never taught in public school that God made it all happen.
Has anybody commented on the distinction in treatment between military and NGOs returning from West Africa? I am completely offended that self-centered, thoughtless healthcare workers returning from ACTUAL CONTACT with Ebola patients are free to roam the streets of New York and elsewhere, but ALL returning military personnel are subject to a mandatory 21-day quarantine whether they had any contact with Ebola victims or not. The Obama administration claims that it is the science that is driving policy, but this distinction is about as anti-scientific as one can get. Once again, it demonstrates the disdain that many in this administration have for the members of the all-volunteer force.
I don’t think I know what an NGO is so I cant answer the question. It seems like we should do the same thing for everyone concerned.
Moreover, I really don’t see this as a states rights issue. We need one policy period. No a patch work of policies…unless of course we want to make an Ebola quilt.
Very disappointing that the rocket launch at Wallops was a failure. It reminded me of the old footage of those early launch attempts in the late 50s. Thankfully no one was injured. Hopefully the damage to the facility is minor and they can get back to launches soon. There’s a lot of competition for launches now and I’d hate to see Virginia miss out.
Agreed, Furby. I think the damage to the area, environment and overall facility was fairly significant.
WaPo has good coverage. The http://www.nasa.gov website is very quiet on the subject.
@Moon-howler
100% of scientists thought the sun went around the earth at one time.
None of the scientists predicted this pause in temperature rise, even as CO2 has gone up.
It simply should not have happened. Therefore something is wrong with their theory.
Based on observation and no scientific methodology. For that matter, “scientists” read bird guts to predict the future also.
Cargo, you are going to beat climate change to death. It exists. It is still in its infancy. I expect many theories will be adjusted and tweaked as is done with most science. We know much more about orbits now than we did when Galileo was going out on a limb.
I think we can all agree that dumping by products of fossil fuels in the atmosphere just isn’t a good idea. Let’s start there.
@Kelly_3406
Kelly – a very valid point. But what would the outcome be if we had Ebola on a Base that was spread between soldiers? Imagine the outcry – and military defense exposure if we allowed that to happen.
Chris Christie really has bad manners. That might play out in Jersey but it sure doesn’t in the rest of the country. I don’t think that sit down and shut up is really presidential material.
@Kelly_3406
It really just feeds into public confusion. I’ve had to answer a lot of questions about Ebola in the last few weeks, and these kinds of weird distinctions really don’t help when you’re trying to reassure people. The PR effort has been awful. Shifting sands tend to make people more scared.
@Pat.Herve
No, I wasn’t. Sisters of Mercy and Notre Dame de Namur then Jesuits. And I went to Mass 2x a week for 12 of those years and rarely miss as an adult. I certainly know what I was taught and what I wasn’t. And what’s been said from the pulpit. Unless you think believing God had a hand in evolution is creationism. No one I knew did and I don’t.
Not sure why you would tell me IF I went….when I said I did.
My very Catholic mother in law always said that God had a hand in evolution. Works for me.
What your opinion of Kelly Hiscox?
@Pat Herve – my parents weren’t taught creationism either. BUT we were all taught we’re the only ones going to heaven. That has been debunked by religious politicians. I’ve been told directly that I’m not a Christian. Then I tried to discuss theology with the common idea so I thought was different than religion and that failed miserably.
Why are you the only ones going to heaven?
@Lyssa
Lyssa – you said Parochial School. Parochial School does not mean a Catholic School. Catholic Schools are Parochial Schools, but not all Parochial Schools are Catholic. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers. When I went, we were taught Creationism and NOT evolution.
Where I come from there’s only one kind of parochial school. I was beginning to think I was far worse in science than I thought. Which is possible.
My feather do ruffle easily over catholic things. Ask Moon. I’ll never recover from being told I wasn’t a Christian at a social function. I was dumbfounded that they believed that. Scarred me for life.
Eight of my twelve years of school were Catholic schools.
All of them taught evolution. I didn’t even get “creationism” in religion class. It was merely Genesis in religion class. It was not taught as the “truth” but “what the Bible says.”
And to all you heretical Protestants, REPENT!!!! Rejoin the Holy Mother Church!
Isn’t Genesis creationism?
Afraid I don’t see the difference.
Why Cargo……..I learned what rapture meant in my 30’s. Never heard of it until then and when I ended up here.
So I didn’t you get a lot of teaching focused on environmental issues? We were taught we are accountable for our actions and the fate of the earth, respect for all creation, environmental ethics are not limited to human life, Gods purpose for all things on earth and the economic benefit of a healthy earth to all. A lot of that was covered in religion.
I think that is pretty much the good stewards of the earth part…. We are also taught not to be wasteful or greedy or to take more than you need.
(Translation: Don’t go out and fish for more than you can eat, kill more than you can eat, don’t shoot buffalo from a train….)
I never heard of the rapture until I was solidly an adult either. Does that make me a bad person? I think I heard it on TV as a matter of fact.
@Lyssa
Never heard of the rapture in Catholic school. Definitely a Protestant thing.
As for conservation….. that was taught in civics class and science class. We should try to pollute as little as possible and clean up as much as possible. Even then, it wasn’t a big deal. Just another lesson. in the 60’s and 70’s, the crying Indian was the big thing on TV.
What I learned was that only successful capitalist societies are able to develop cleaner technologies and are willing to clean up the environment.
@Lyssa
That’s a bit of a struggle. I’m glad there are nurses who are willing to put themselves out there to help in the fight against a killer disease in the way she has, and I admire her for that. But I also sense a bit of grandstanding and deliberate efforts to embarrass certain politicians during an election season. I’d like to be wrong on this.
@ Moon – where does the bad person fit in? Yes, I agree we are stewards of this earth – steward is a very interesting and powerful word. My understanding of Genesis is that Gods hand was involved in evolution. Not sure that’s the same as creationism. It addresses the question of those events that were unobservable and mostly addressed by science?
@Cargo ….much of which those sucessful capitalist countries created. So that’s not stewardship that’s cleanup and should it have happened? I don’t recall a lot of swagger about capitalism from the Sisters that taught us. I do recall lessons in balance – my spouse recalls similar teachings from his public experience.
@Emma – thanks. I think you are our Ebola Tsar here..it is looking more and more as you say with regard to Hickox. It would be a shame for her passion to be remembered this way. At Newark airport she was confined to a cold tent without running water and had to wear paper clothing? Her continued reluctance to comply even after going home to Ft Kent indicates other motives. Three weeks comes close to a FMLA situation for employers…employers would have to grant leave days. Aye yai yai…
@Lyssa
I was speaking of the fact that only capitalist countries like those in the West seem to a) care about cleaning up b) care about prevention.
The former communist countries are disaster areas. Just look at Russia’s Aral Sea. I don’t expect Nuns to swagger about capitalism…nor did the brothers. I learned this from history, civics, and the news.
Yes you are correct about some other countries, but it feels like the people who clean up and prevent are not the same as those that create it here in the US. And I think they enjoy the lax attitudes of other countries. I heard Donald Trump on Fox & Friends say the other day that Mexico is stealing our jobs. I think he and others are giving them to Mexico….funny thing, perspective.
Which brothers?
@Lyssa
I had Sacred Heart Brothers in one school. Then the Christian Brothers.
The Sisters of Charity had me for about six months until my mother pulled me out and put me in public school. The Nuns and my mother never got along.
I don’t remember any earlier than that.
I went to Catholic schools for Kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6-11 grades. 8 schools in 12 years.
I’m glad that Virginia requires ID to vote since all these reports of voter fraud are coming in. I’m curious to see if OUR machines flip to Democrat when I vote GOP, like they did in Maryland and in Illinois.
Partisan to the end with the Grand Obstructionist Party?
I have already voted.
@Moon-howler
I’ll take a shot at this. There are several different interpretations of Genesis that could be considered “creationism”. What most people think of creationism is sometimes called Young Earth Creationism. As in the world is about 6000 years old, created in six days, fossils were either created as fossils by God or are relics from the Great Flood, etc.. Young Earth Creationists get a lot of coverage in the media but I’ve never actually met one or ever talked to anyone who met one.
A much larger percentage would agree with a different interpretation of Genesis that uses a line from Issiah that ‘days’ for God are not 24 hour periods. Thus the six days of creation in Genesis could actually be six million or billion years. This is sometimes called Old Earth Creationism. This is the group that usually has the most debate over evolution, since there is at least enough time for evolution to have occurred. Some believe in evolution, some don’t and some believe in evolution just for animals but that man was created as-is by God.
At least in my experience, Old Earch Creationism is not that common either. Just about every Christian I’ve ever met believes in an interpretation that I’ve heard called God the Watchmaker. God created everything, including the rules of physics and evolution that govern how the earth changed over the last six billion years. (The watchmaker analogy is that like a watchmaker, God created everything and started it running, but the watch maker isn’t actively involved in keeping the time correct on the watch once it was created.) Man came about through evolution because God wanted us to be one of the products of evolution. (Lyssa’s understanding of Genesis is in this camp. Some believe God may ‘assist’ evolution along the way, while others think it happens on its own now according to the rules God set up when he created everything.)
The Catholic church has been in this camp for at least the last 100 years or so. The Big Bang Theory (the theory, not the TV show) was actually postulated by a Catholic priest. In this interpretation, Genesis is explained as either an allegorical tale or the best explanation the Hebrews of 1200 BC could come up with for how the world was created.
Technically, this last interpretation can be considered ‘creationism’ since it says that God was responsible for the Big Bang, but I think most people would consider ‘creationism’ to be one of the first two.
Really the only difference between the third interpretation and what scientists say is that the Catholic church has God existing before the Big Bang and causing it. Scientists say that God (or anything else) did not exist before the Big Bang as time itself did not exist. The Big Bang simply occurred. Nothing preceded it.
I done know how typical my experience is compared to others, but I can’t think of anyone that doesn’t believe in some version of #3. That’s what my Catholic high school taught many years ago. (Back when a lot of scientists didn’t like the Big Bang theory because it was seen as too Christian.)
Thanks Furby. That was enlightening. I never bothered to learn all that. Not even sure where I would learn it all.
As I was reading, several thoughts came to mind. First thought, does it matter if the big bang invented God or if God invented the Big Bang. I am not so sure it matters to mankind.
Where do those ancient prehistoric fossil remains fit in each theory?
I think most of the fight isn’t where animals fit as much as where man fits in. The people who I know who get offended by me (saying I believe in evolution) seem to be most offended by the man from apes component of that. I don’t necessarily believe in man from apes but you get my drift.
@Moon-howler
Early voting? Mail in?
yes. I voted absentee.
@Cargosquid
“Scientists say that God (or anything else) did not exist before the Big Bang as time itself did not exist. The Big Bang simply occurred. Nothing preceded it.”
The physicists that I have talked to and listened to make a point of saying that they are NOT saying ANYTHING about the existence or nonexistence of God, in whatever form that might be.
They are merely describing the universe and then making a theory about its PHYSICAL origins based upon physical evidence.
Since God is a matter of faith…..they don’t address it.
Nor should they. Science and faith are different. They both might arrive at the same conclusions but they are different and have different methods of “proof.”
My thoughts are that scientists should keep faith out of their work and those who are professional faith folks should leave science alone.
That would be a great loss to science. There have been many scientists who were “professional faith folks”. Here’s a long list of scientists that were Catholic priests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists
I’m sure there are equally impressive lists of Rabbis, Protestant Ministers and clergy from any other major religion. Those lists just weren’t as easy to find on Wikipedia in 5 seconds. 🙂 Definitely not trying to imply anything about any particular religion, just that a LOT of good science has come from clergy.
The idea that there is some conflict between science and religion has only been around for about a 100 years. Oddly enough, most professional scientists and clergy would agree that there isn’t a conflict.
@Moon-howler
On the fossils, a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) would either say they were put there when the Earth was created. (Don’t ask me why, there’s only so much I can explain) or they are from before the Flood. I believe the Creation Museum in KY says fossils are proof of the Flood, but don’t quote me on that. They have dinosaur fossils at the Creation Museum, and they explain them as creatures that lived along with Man before the Flood.
Old Earth Creationists wouldn’t have any issue with fossils, as Genesis says animals were created before Man. That some of them were created millions of years before Man isn’t a problem. They might have some issue with the idea that species evolved into other species but they don’t have any issue with the concept of dinosaurs or other creatures living long before the time of Man.
Group three wouldn’t have an issue with fossils at all. They were species that evolved and continued to evolve.
Furby, I am going to delare you our resident expert on such matters.
YEC would also think the earth is the only place that life (esp. mankind) exists. Earth exceptionalism….it is uniquely located in the universe to support life and no other place like it exists.
If we find life once existed on Mars YEC heads will explode.
Can you imagine the theological question: does spiritual salvation via God’s incarnation and death extend to alien life especially if that life isn’t even like us?
@Ed Myers
Actually, I think that the Catholic Church has addressed this….. But I don’t know where to find that doctrine.
C.S Lewis wrote about aliens I don’t recall the book; we were the bad guys they were without sin… I would guess life is simply life. It’s not defined by how we look. Life is a miracle –
@Cargo that’s a lot of schools. Christian Bros. have a great reputation.