President Obama announced on Thursday evening a series of executive actions to grant up to five million unauthorized immigrants protection from deportation. The president is also planning actions to direct law enforcement priorities toward criminals, allow high-skilled workers to move or change jobs more easily, and streamline visa and and court procedures, among others.
The president’s plan is expected to affect up to five million of the nation’s unauthorized immigrant population, currently 11.4 million according to the Migration Policy Institute. It would create a new program of deferrals for approximately 3.7 undocumented parents of American citizens or legal permanent residents who have been in the country for at least five years. Deferrals would include authorization to work and would be granted for three years at a time.
It would also expand a program created by the administration in 2012 called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, which allows young people who were brought into the country as children to apply for deportation deferrals and work permits. The plan would extend eligibility to people who entered the United States as children before January 2010 (the cutoff is currently June 15, 2007). It would also increase the deferral period to three years from two years and eliminate the requirement that applicants be under 31 years old. About 1.2 million young immigrants are currently eligible, and the new plan would expand eligibility to approximately 300,000 more.
It would not provide a path to full legal status or benefits under the Affordable Care Act. Officials have said that the president’s plan will not provide specific protection for farm workers or parents of DACA-eligible immigrants.
Perfect! President Obama hit a home run out of the ballpark! It’s time for Congress to get off its lazy ass and pass immigration legislation that is realistic and pragmatic. The President spelled out what his executive order would do and what it wouldn’t do. It will help those who have lived here for at least 5 years and who have American born children. It won’t help those who haven’t been here long nor those who want to come in the future. It will help those who have behaved and who have quietly living in the shadows. Those people will have to pass a criminal background check. It will help families not felons. Those who don’t meet the criteria will be deported. The Dream Act is included.
There will be those Americans who still see anything short of deportation as “amnesty.” That is absurd. The real amnesty is doing nothing because it simply isn’t possible to deport all the undocumented immigrants living in this country. It’s time to start dealing with the problem of immigration realistically rather than by knee-jerk political reactions.
In the absence of statistics, I propose that we use common f***ing sense.
Illegal immigrants are doing jobs that our non-college graduate population could be doing. They bring no skill or qualifications to the work that they do, but they do it for less. Hence, depressed wages.
If we implement the idea of a guest worker program where you have to be outside to come back in -which was being talked about in 2007 – let’s say we had an entirely different set of immigrants come in than the ones that were here. Would we lose any needed skills? How long would it take to teach the new batch how to empty trash cans, mop floors, cut grass, etc?
There is a market for these people not because of what they do in particular, but because they are willing to work for less. They lower wages. Common f**ing sense. no way around that.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not angry at them for it. Am I angry at our crooked politicians? Heck yes. And at the democratic Party I used to vote for? Very much.
I had a relative who worked as a janitor in the Capital, for years. She was proud to have done that. made a living and fed a family. Citizens need no longer apply for that job.
I knew a guy who worked in landscaping. Of course eventually work dried up for him.
I’ve known construction workers too. No need to hire citizens to actually get their hands dirty with that anymore.
Oh, and those people I mention above were black. Wolve speaks the truth, and it’s freaking obvious.
Please no crying about the black unemployment rate from anyone who supports illegal immigration or comprehensive Amnesty.
Black people are IMO even more disenfranchised than whites by today’s politics.
Certainly if you watched “Fahrenheit 9/11” it’s hard to forget the sight of Al Gore shouting down black Representatives about whether black voters were disenfranchised in the election. Not a viable way to win, so Gore didn’t give two ****s.
Black people have two choices. The one party is pursuing policies that – and don’t doubt that everyone knows this on some level – have caused (or at a minimum, subsidized) misery. To include support for waves of illegal immigrants who take lower-class jobs away from black Americans.
And the other party is full of people whose words and actions frequently show contempt for black people, and who have a whole television channel where they do litle except to attack and try to make a joke out of the first black President. So there you go.
“Why don’t black people consider voting Republican”? Same reason white people don’t consider Al Quaida a valid option.
No good choices.
Both whites and blacks are too stupid to realize that by reflexively voting for the same party over and over, they remove any leverage that they have to actually influence that party.
Latinos may be a bit smarter than the rest of us. They seem to have figured this out.
I just gave you an example of our local private trash collection companies. (Same thing in landscaping.) Black workers disappeared. Latinos got the jobs. You can bet those Latinos cost the companies less in pay and benefits and were in no position to file complaints against management. And the fact that so many companies have hired illegal immigrants, to the detriment of American workers of all races, is one of the great problems with the immigration system. A lot of people have been calling for a long time for the arrest of these American corporate law breakers, big and small.
In sum, illegal immigrants have been getting the entry-level and lower-level jobs which ought to be going to Americans and legal immigrants who have to pay the rent and put food on the table even while looking to self-educate and rise to higher levels. How in heck can we have an overall White unemployment level at about 5.4% and young Blacks 16-19, for instance, stumbling along at 32.6%, yet decide to let in waves of poorly educated immigrant labor for the entry-level and lower-level jobs?
“no irish need apply”
same mantra, different ethnicity………………….
and those “dirty Italians”
early 20th century!
The Struggle For Survival
Part of the reason the Italians were treated so badly was that they were seen as unintelligent, menial laborers. They were willing to work in deplorable conditions, especially on first arrival. Many of the first Italian fishermen of Gloucester, Massachusetts, settled there after years of doing nearly anything from working in rail yards and stables, to mining for gold in California. The determination of these first immigrants to support their families was apparently misunderstood as a slave or servant mentality. It is a theme that is still current today in America: the native residents accuse the immigrants of taking their jobs, underselling them by working longer hours for much lower wages. And apparently Italians have forgotten their history because this is also their attitude towards foreigner workers in Italy.
What observers at the time did not realize was that these industrious men and women were just starting out on the ground floor. This backbreaking and often degrading labor was just a stepping stone to acceptance and legitimacy within American society. The first generation suffered to make life easier for the generations to come.
– See more at: http://www.lifeinitaly.com/heritage/italian-discrimination#sthash.WHg2oFQq.dpuf
@Moon-howler
“Additionally, many companies won’t risk hiring illegal immigrants. It’s illegal to hire those who don’t have the proper credentials.”
That’s just it. Obama is illegally allowing them work permits. Of course, their SS numbers etc will still be fake…and they will be living here illegally…but they will have gov’t work permits.
Thank you, Rick, for your in-depth analysis using your gift for critical thinking. Let’s summarize your “final solution:”
1. Immediately deport 11 million people. This deportation would apply to all undocumented people, including those with American citizen children and spouses and jobs. Either break up those families or send spouses and children “home” to places they’ve never lived and a language they don’t know.
2. Allow 2 million to possibly return, but as permanent second-class “guest” workers with no chance to become an American citizen. So much for a “classless” society or a melting pot.
Congratulations- obviously a well thought-out plan, just like your economic analysis of the effect of immigrants on jobs and the economy. You assume that ALL undocumented workers are unskilled, all low wage, non-business owners that take jobs from black people, among others. In your simplistic view, we deport the undocumented workers and wages go up, unemployment goes down, and everyone’s happy. Except those who work for undocumented residents. Or those who depend on the paycheck of the undocumented. Or the companies that rely on the skills of the undocumented.
Look, Rick, we agree that a major reason the undocumented are still here is because they benefit the rich as the “system” exists now. That’s why the Republican rhetoric is just that- they have no intention of shutting off the flow of cheap labor that benefits their donors, any more than the Democrats have any intention of alienating a large voting bloc. For the reasons you’ve acknowledged, mass deportation is never going to happen, so why don’t we work to control the border better, give those here a path to citizenship, and work on the long-term trend that has left the middle and lower classes out of the benefits from increases in productivity over the past 35 years? We need to give EVERYONE a fighting chance, whether they’re African-American, Hispanic, Irish, Asian or from anywhere else on the planet. That’s our history and heritage, and we need to get back to it.
Hahahahahah!!! Now the left is doing bible references, that’s so cute. Pelosi said the same thing the other day. Who would have ever thought left wing nut jobs (Pelosi, not you Stary) would be quoting or referencing the bible when it comes to how to govern. I always thought they cried about separation of church and state, now they seem to be openly using the bible and the Christian faith as a guide on how to govern. Odd times we live in today….
Nancy Pelosi is Catholic. I believe that her reference was very much in keeping with the Catholic faith’s view on immigration.
People on the left have absolutely as much right to have a religious opinion as anyone else. I would say the major difference would be that people on the left don’t want their religion forced down the throats of others but they would be right there among the first to insist on the Golden Rule.
Actually Starry was referencing part of President Obama’s speech the other night. Obama said that we were all strangers once…(not a direct quote) Are you now denying both Starry and Obama the right to give biblical references in context?
For those who claim no precedent was set by this action:
So apparently, no precedent was set because The Executive has stated no precedent was set.
While the powers of The Executive appear to be nearly unlimited now, they are still limited by time. Future Presidents will decide what precedent was set last week. When The Executive can’t offer any actual justification for why no precedent was set (other than “Absolutely not”) it’s clear this will be abused in the future by the Left & the Right.
As I said before, I hope you feel that temporary relief from deportations for two years was worth the future fruit of the poisoned tree that was planted last week. But I suspect that in time you will recognize it was too high a price to pay.
Which brings us back to the question why Congress hasn’t passed legislation. Do we just bury our heads in the sand over this issue while 15 million people do have what is clearly amnesty?
middleman, I’m open to compromise on the issue, but I think we need to acknowledge that an attempt to redo 1986 all over is going to end up the same way. The only way we can stem the flow of illegal immigrants is to actually punish people for lawbreaking. It’s politically inconvenient but it’s true.
People have to pay “application fees” all the time to keep their paper work up. They still don’t have green cards and aren’t classified as legal residents. Those fines….err fees have to be paid every 2 years. Many of them cannot leave now because they cannot get back in to the country. If an older relative dies or is sick, including parents, that immigrant is SOL and I don’t mean the Virginia standards of learning.
@Moon-howler
I’m not denying anyone anything. I just find it funny that when it comes to things that aren’t popular the ‘left’ always seems to use the WWJD approach (what would Jesus do). The hypocrisy is amusing because the same crowd tends to ridicule religious folk, you know… ‘cling to their god and guns’ and all.
Let me reiterate, people on the left are often religious. They simply don’t want to go all Taliban with their own religion. Why on earth can’t someone use a biblical reference in speech? It’s done all the time in all forms of speech, often without people even knowing they are doing it.
Your comments clearly indicate that you clueless and thrive on sweeping generalizations.
Lot of truth to that. Faith-based social planning.
Politcians of all stripes into their heads that corrupting spiritual issues for secular political gain is a good thing. who can blame them, because even religious people seem to fall for it over and over again.
Sound immigration policy can be achieved without reference to scripture. It’s in our economic interests to have access to a free flow of labour and capital and to avoid distortions in that flow caused by arbitrary govermental restrictions.
To me the common thread beneath all our current issues is division. Black, white, hispanic, conservative, liberal, rich, poor, religious or secular- we’re divided. We even choose our community based on the political leaning of the residents there. This affects immigration policy, tax policy, racial relations, environmental policy- everything.
Americans have always had philosophical differences, but I think the difference now is that we don’t have any real human interactions with those who look or think differently than we do. We may snipe at each other on blogs, but we’re surrounded most of the time by people and media that reinforce our hardened views. This is not a new idea or original on my part, but I’ve come to believe in how true it is.
There’s a good reason that many advancements in race relations, women’s issues, pay fairness and equitability and environmental protection came in the years after WW II. Rich, poor, black, white, female, southern, western, midwest and northeast were all mixed together for a common goal. Thousand of Americans gained new respect for each other when they actually came face-to-face with those they had previously only had stereotypes for. From Rosie the Riveter to the Tuskegee Airmen there was a new respect for the “other,” and this carried over to the post war period. I don’t think it was any accident that this was a time of major reform and progress and also the greatest prosperity for ALL classes in our history.
Somehow, we need to get back to interacting in a meaningful way with those we see as the “other.” If we don’t, all we will see is more division and inaction that is leveraged and promoted by politicians and others for their own unholy reasons.
Interesting perspective, middleman. You have given me something to think about, for sure.
I got a big dose of what you are saying right before the election. My son was looking at property and houses in the Winchester area. We went through Old Town Winchester and I noticed that nearly every yard in the residential section had an election sign. I didn’t see a single sign of any Democratic candidates.
Not even one!
I think you have to be a Republican to move to Winchester.
That division is being exacerbated by Obama’s policies. He has furthered the division for political gain, as surely as Nixon or any Republican ever did. If you look at what’s happening dispassionately, outside the prism of partisanship, it’s undeniable.
On the ground level, we DO all get along with each other better all the time, and society IS more integrated, and KIDS are less racial in thinking than their parents. It’s only at the level of politics and political thinking that we’re more separated.
I honestly belief Obama is sincere about his desires for change in immigration policy.
I believe he sees a bigger picture than you or I do.
Can you explain that picture?
It seems obvious to me that that picture is a swollen underclass – increased poverty, and a larger gap between rich and poor.
He is looking at families. IN particular, he is very much in favor of the dream act. I don’t see immigrants as making the gap wider between rich and poor. Most immigrants are only poor for a little while. Then they become middle class. I see Americans as adding to the gap. Most immigrants are movers and shakers and work long, difficult hours. Very few are lazy. I can’t say that about a lot of Americans.
Or am I supposed to swallow some argument that because we do something inclusive and charitable, good things necessarily result from it?
An argument similar to the legendary “underpants gnomes” on South Park? “Step 1, we welcome in poor people and make them happy. Step 3, we enjoy a more robust economy.”
I don’t watch South Park.
Step 2 is God smiling on us and Jesus rewarding us, I suppose.
So Obama, by allowing families to remain together and people who have jobs and businesses in America to not fear immediate deportation, is furthering division? Division amongst which groups? If you mean between xenophobics and the rest of us, maybe, but those divisions were already pretty extreme.
The GOP, due to internal division, is obviously never going to act, so Obama got things moving toward LESS division between Hispanics and other groups in the U.S. with his action. He’s obviously on the right side of history.
He furthers division in the way he massages this illegal immigration issue. rather than try to work with Congress on a reasonable compromise, he and his party “hold out” for some solution that involves huge waves of new citizens down the road. They know the GOP will never agree to that – heck, DC residents STILL don’t get a Senate vote even though they’re taxpaying citizens, because they are a locked in Democratic vote. He knows it won’t happen. But enjoys the idea of pitting Latino voters against the GOP.
So, the doable reasonable approach to compromise isn’t viable. And the issue’s alive.
Moon, the underpants gnomes are responsible for children’s missing underwear. They sneak into their rooms at night and steal away with their underwear. Eventually the South Park kids follow one gnome back to their lair and find out what this is all about – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmoCuA4-y9E
That whole episode is rather great – season 2, episode 17, to do with family-owned businesses vs. chains.
Is hat like sock gremelins who live in washing machines and dryers?
“Following the episode’s release, the underpants gnomes and particularly the business plan lacking a second stage between “Collect underpants” and “Profit”, became widely used by many journalists and business critics as a metaphor for failed, internet bubble-era business plans[10][11][12] and ill-planned political goals.”
And in fact it is a perfect metaphor for this idea that somehow a swelling underclass in America ends up in a stronger country.
“Most immigrants are only poor for a little while.”
False assertion. Completely false. No basis in logic or study.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility#Immigration –
By computing the intergenerational correlation between relative wages of first and second generation workers from the same country a conclusion was made regarding whether or not first generation immigrants influence the wages of the second generation immigrants. This computation was also reported for native-born first and second generation American families. The study found that both immigrants and natives pass along almost exactly the same level of economic advantages or disadvantages to their offspring. These conclusions predict diminishing correlations in wages from the first and second generations if change in the level of education for each immigrant is considered. Since the majority of immigrants have low levels of education, it may be increasingly difficult for future second generation immigrants to ever surpass the average wages of non-immigrants
Everything in America really is contrary to what you are saying. The parents work hard, often two jobs. Kids get educated and are better off than their parents. There really aren’t the same causes and symptoms as generational poverty.
(mainly because immigrants get off their ass and work like hell, unlike a lot of native born americans of all races and creeds.)
But you know, if it makes you feel good, go on believing it. It’s a free country. You can believe utter bulls*** if you choose to.
Because they work harder than us, it’ll all be good in the long run. They’ll do the work, we’ll sit and sip margaritas by the pool, and it’ll all be one big happy multi-cultural scene.
(As opposed to the idea that wages diminish, the social safety net is reduced, and we slip further into two Americas. Which is what’s happening. Supporting evidence to this theory is, um, current reality).
If I subscribe to the idea that these immigrants work harder than native-born Americans – so now what are the native-born Americans supposed to do?
I guess they go on welfare?
And so now we have more people here, and less working? And this adds up to a stronger America somehow?
You must see a different set of people than I do. Sorry, I am not ready to blame income disparity on immigrants.
Go back through the entire 20th century. Look at the different generations of Irish, Italians, Jews, Poles, and tell me how they are living now.
I didn’t say that there won’t be any upwards mobility. I’m saying that it is not more dramatic than for non-immigrants.
Which leaves us with a net increase in poverty. And a net reduction in the value of labor.
Rick, you have huge blinders on while you accuse others of not letting information in and believing bulls***. Are you serious about Obama’s lack of attempts at compromise? Have you not heard of the Senate bill waiting on Boehner’s desk for a vote? The bill with bipartisan support of 75% in the Senate? You’re ignoring the facts because they undermine your position.
Compromise doesn’t mean that the anti-immigration minority gets everything they want. The majority of Americans are in favor of a path to citizenship. The GOP has had years to manage their internal differences on this issue, particularly in the House, and they can’t do it. So Obama did something- good for him, finally showing some intestinal fortitude.
Let the lawsuits and kangaroo courts begin!
I think Rick is crossing over to the “dark side.”
Obama has compromised more than most presidents.
If he went with a guest worker approach instead of holding out for citizenship and voting rights, the whole issue would have been done. But that doesn’t help him votewise and he would have luis Guitierrez screaming in his ear.
The majority of Americans would be in favor of a guest worker solution. But neither party gets “Paid” that way.
The immigration Obama is talking about does NOT include citizenship. I don’t think it even allows them to be permanent residents.
Non-citizens can’t vote.
Rick, you obviously can’t see how your bias is affecting your positions. “Going with a guest worker approach” is not a compromise- it’s capitulation to the anti-immigration minority.
The Senate bill is a compromise- and it’s the House Republicans creating division for political gain.
Rick, the study did not find, as you said, “that both immigrants and natives pass along almost exactly the same level of economic advantages or disadvantages to their offspring.” From the link: “In 2000, the second generation workers from less industrialized nations have experienced an increase in relative mobility because their average wages have moved closer to those of non-immigrants.” It’s only after the second generation that the wages stagnate, tracking with natives wages. This is due to a long-term trend related to income inequality across the board. Neither lower income Americans OR immigrants have shared in the increases in productivity of the past 35 years- that’s what the Wiki piece is actually saying.
Standing ovation @ middleman.
Boo for middleman. Blinded by partisan politics.
I’m not going to stand here and pretend that I’m an expert on economic mobility. But I’m stunned at the way some of you think we can all be winners if we just let more poor people in.