When so much media attention is being paid to perceived innocent victims of cop abuse, it’s important to remember that law enforcement officers go out daily not knowing what kind of behavior they are going to encounter. Will their encounters be annoying, harmful or deadly? Over Thanksgiving weekend, Prince William County police officers were assaulted 6 different times. They were kicked, hit, shoved covered in broken glass, and generally abused. According to insidenova.com:
Prince William County police officers were assaulted in six separate incidents over Thanksgiving weekend.
The first case happened on Thanksgiving at 3:54 p.m., when officers were called to a home in the 12200 block of Charles Lacy Drive in Manassas to investigate a domestic assault. The victim, a 59-year-old Manassas woman, told police she was assaulted following an argument. The suspect resisted when officers tried to arrest him, kicking one officer in the face, said Prince William police spokesman Jonathan Perok. Minor injuries were reported.
The perp was charged with assault and battery of a LEO. The next couple of incidents involved drunks. Drunks are always miserable to deal with as are domestic quarrels.
An officer standing near the cruiser told the man to stop kicking the window, but he continued, breaking the glass. The officer standing nearby suffered cuts to his arm and head from the glass shards.
Christopher Steven Hall, of Atkins Way in Haymarket, was charged with assault and battery on a police officer, assault and destruction of property.
Then on Nov. 29 just before 6 p.m., police were called to Sentara Northern Virginia Medical Center on Opitz Boulevard in Woodbridge for a disorderly man. Officers arrived to find a patient being disorderly with medical staff. The man struck a hospital worker before “removing his clothing and running around the ER,” Perok said.
An officer at the hospital on an unrelated call attempted to arrest the man and was assaulted. Additional officers arrived and got the man into custody. Minor injuries were reported.
A naked nut running around the ER must have been trying. At least no one was severely injured. These incidents are probably fairly routine. In all 6 cases, however, a police officer was assaulted. How many times a day does this happen? Probably a lot more than we know about. Every incident like this involves a judgement -call that unfortunately can have life and death consequences. Any time a police officer is threatened or attacked, things can go real bad for the person doing that attacking. It’s just something to think about as some of the media hangs officers out to dry.
” Any time a police officer is threatened or attacked, things can go real bad for the person doing that attacking. It’s just something to think about as some of the media hangs officers out to dry.”
While it is not my intention to drive this discussion into a big sociological examination, I think a major contributing factor to this “It’s OK to assault someone, including a cop” is a symptom of society’s overall respect for authority. I think this has its roots in a decline in the traditional family and parental rights, AND especially an erosion of the authority of teachers in the public schools. Respect for authority begins in the home, and is reinforced in the classroom. Lacking these, children grow into adults who do not respect legitimate civil authority, and the civil society at-large. Police Officers are the most visible manifestations of legitimate civil authority. Sadly, when the police arrive, it is often as a result of a breach of the peace, or other crime. Layer in the fact that we are the most medicated society in the history of man, add in the lack of respect for authority, sprinkle some family dysfunction, and you have a society where Cops must use force greater than that required to detain a subject.
One of my uncles was a cop. He explained to the teen-me what he explained to his kids: Don’t mess with cops. Don’t run from them, because they’ll only be mad when they catch you, and they will most likely catch you. Don’t back-talk them, because you make it worth their while to do the paperwork to jam you up; be respectful, and they may just let you go with a warning. And most of all, never, ever, physically resist one of them. They have radios and lots of friends, many of whom are already on the way. They all have mace, and clubs, and guns, and unless you are a bullet-proof kung-fu master, you will most likely lose.
Wonderful advice from your uncle, Steve.
I don’t disagree with you. I noticed a decline when the 26 amendment was passed. Don’t laugh. The 26 amendment put kids in some sort of limbo they really weren’t ready to handle. When I was growing up, the magic age was 21. that gave me about 3 years from high school to the magic age to get a little more self reliance BUT….my parents still footed the bills and paid my college. They also got the report cards and any disciplinary reports. (there were none–fortunately for me.) In other words, I had accountability to my parents. Could I have told them to F-off? Sure. I would have been homeless, collegeless, and my father would have probably literally kicked me in the ass. (that had happened before freshman year when I thought I knew everything.)
Parents had the authority because I was not 21 which was the age of majority. I couldn’t rent an apartment, or buy anything on credit without a parent signature. Basically, I was a kid.
Back then, your parents were also judged by your behavior. If I acted up or was rude to a cop, my parents would have known about it before the sun set. If I misbehaved at school and my parents sided with the teacher, *I* never knew about it. I was there to do what I was told to do.
Only trash let their kids talk back or misbehave in public. That’s just how it was.
When my kids were growing up, when they turned 18 they were their own boss, according to the law.
I was (for awhile) a security policemen in the military. One lesson that was taught is only physically engage someone when the odds are in your favor. One vs one was no good. 20 vs one was better.
“I noticed a decline when the 26 amendment was passed. Don’t laugh. The 26 amendment put kids in some sort of limbo they really weren’t ready to handle.”
I won’t laugh. I think you make a point I never considered: 18 vs. 21. When you take this into account, along with all of the erosion of parental authority (who ever heard of a kid suing their parents for private/college tuition…and winning the suit?), not to mention the dirth of late 20-somethings & 30-somethings still living at home…no wonder our society is spiraling into infantilism. Really, what is a riot except a mob throwing a very destructive tantrum?
You also hit on another point: Shame used to be a powerful deterrent. People just don’t seem to feel genuine shame the same way as they used to. My Police Officer Uncle used to say that he (the father of 6 beautiful girls) measured his success as a parent by how many times a particular child was delivered home via a police cruiser he wasn’t driving. As far as I know, it only happened twice. Once with the Oldest (now almost 60). Once with the Youngest (now mid-40’s).
18 year-olds aren’t adults. They just aren’t. Many of them haven’t even graduated from high school. The 26th amendment threw all sorts of things into turmoil that heretofore had been understood. Drinking, parents rights, student rights, kids’ rights. It was legislated to affect voting–it allowed those being drafted to have a voice in their leaders. The amendment itself is short, sweet and to the point, or so we thought. By the time the courts got hold of it, the kids became their own great grandfathers or something. All sorts of “rights” for 18 year olds spilled out of that Pandora’s box. I am still looking for HOPE.
18 year olds should be able to vote. That’s it. Adulthood should return to age 21. I was a real AH at 18. I was supposed to be. I needed a cooling off period between 18 and 21 where I learned to be a human being, under the guidance of my parents.
As I usually take at least one “armed citizen” type training course per year, I have had multiple occasions to receive instruction from off-duty law enforcement officers. One class sticks out in my mind. An off-duty VASP Trooper was instructing us on the proper way of interacting with Law Enforcement, while lawfully carrying a concealed or open-carry firearm. He stressed that while responsible armed-citizens are trained to “elevate defensive posture to escalating threat”, Cops are trained to approach every situation at the highest level of threat-response posture, and de-escalate as the situation warrants. Sort of like the old Marine mantra “Be respectful of everyone you meet, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet” or as the Trooper put it “Action beats Reaction”.
My, this brings back memories from long ago. Back in the day, as an elementary school student, I had a dispute with a neighbor boy over something or other. It evolved into a loud shouting match in the driveway of the kid’s house. The kid threatened to have his father “take care” of me. The father was a police officer. My response? I still remember it. “Ah, your father is too big for his britches!!” Then I went home.
What I didn’t know was that the kid’s father was home and had heard my comment. It wasn’t 20 minutes or less before the father-cop was at our door having a conversation with MY father. And it was a short time later that I had a a discussion (ahem) with my own father about being disrespectful toward police officers.
Guess that doesn’t happen much anymore.
Get ready for Round 2. Word on the radio news is that a grand jury in New York is going to refuse to indict the NYPD officer involved in the case where a Black suspect died from a illegal police choke hold when he refused to be submit to arrest. There is plenty of video on that one.
DOJ is going to investigate it.
The Garner case is upsetting. That man didn’t have a chance. Unless something is going on that we can’t see, that was cop abuse, in my opinion.
@wolve
first off, I am sort of on the side of Little Wolve. The kid shouldn’t have threatened you with his father. I hope you didn’t get a thrashing.
2nd off, I was surprised that there was no indictment for the Eric Garner death. On the other hand, what was the grand jury asked. I don’t think it was homicide but it sure was piling on by cops. Over reaction that led to death?
Members of the police bicycle squad in Denver, Colorado, were escorting a student protest regarding Ferguson, Missouri, when four of the cops were struck by a car driver who may have a mental illness. Three of the officers have been treated and released, but the fourth has been in surgery and is critical.
Tough job out there.
23 members, racially diverse, on 12 votes needed to indict. No indictment after 4 months of testimony, evidence and deliberations. I saw the video, and so did the grand jury. What we didn’t see is all of the witness and forensic evidence. I am inclined to think that this.is another case of the media deliberately or inadvertently arguing the case in the court of public opinion. I am also disappointed in the President’s remarks, as they imply that the justice system failed.
This Garner case is totally different — in my opinion. If a police officer comes up to you, questions you, runs a background check on you and then decides to arrest you, he should never use force to do so. And if you decide that the police have no reason to harrass you, or you disagree with their logic in positing an arrest you should simply be able to say no. And then we should expect the police officer to apologize for bothering you and move on. More over, if a police officer insists on putting you in handcuffs, either due to an arrest decision or, more likely, as a safety issue until they can further review your position on the matter, you shoud be under no obligtion to comply with such a request. And, again, we should expect the officer to apologize and just move on – or . perhaps the police could simply put up a series on non-violent plastic shield around you so that you won’t feel so discriminated against. And just because you outweigh or outsize 4 officers by 300 pounds – for that reason alone you should be able to expect to be in a class by yourself that means no police officer should be allowed to use whatever force is necessary to get those handcuffs on.
I am not going willingly on Garner’s death. He said he couldn’t breathe 11 times. I don’t like that whole business. NY cops have always had some bad apples. That kind of behavior would have never been allowed to fly here in PWC.
I am glad the DOJ will be investigating Mr Garner’s murder. Those officers’ actions were totally unacceptable. Seems to be open season on black men by white cops. Black lives matter.
Interesting twist in the Garner case. The NY Times has pointed out that the “choke hold” allegedly used by the cop has been banned by the NYPD but is not actually illegal under state law. So, the cop violated NYPD regulations but not the law?
It just seemed so unnecessary in this case. 5 cops piling on a man they thought was selling loosies?
Last time I checked it’s against the law to strangle people to death.
It is. I think the prosecutor went for a homicide conviction. Homocide involves intent. Would the outcome have been different if they went with manslaughter which removes the premeditated intent to kill?
So , let me understand this. Are all of you saying that an accidental death resulting from a legal effort to restrain an individual who is clearly resisting arrest is murder? And more, that is was the fault of the officer and that the individual resisting arrrest has no culpability here, such that the officer should be arrested and charged with murder?
I don’t think anyone has said that on this blog. Murder and homicide have legal definitions. *I* am saying it was police overkill. I would expect people to be fired. Would the same thing have happened if Eric Garner was white? How can we say? No one knows. Was he a frequent flyer? I don’t know.
I think it was a wrongful death. However, I wasn’t there.
The prosecutor was only seeking an indictment for a trial, not a conviction. That was all the people are asking for.
Good questions. That why we needed a trial so that a jury could answer those questions.
Conservatives Join Outrage Over Grand Jury Decision In Eric Garner’s Death
12/03/14 05:56 PM ET
WASHINGTON — Opinions on the decision reached by a grand jury last week not to indict the police officer who killed 18-year-old Michael Brown largely broke down along partisan lines, with many conservatives agreeing that Darren Wilson should not have faced a trial. But another grand jury’s decision not to indict a New York City police officer who placed 43-year-old Eric Garner into a chokehold, resulting in his death, seems to be playing out much differently so far.
The fact that Garner’s death was captured on video and that Officer Daniel Pantaleo used a chokehold tactic that has been banned by the New York City Police Department seem to be key factors for many on the right who believe the officer should have been indicted.
“The grand jury’s decision not to bring any charges against the officer who killed Garner is inexplicable. It defies reason. It makes no sense,” wrote Sean Davis at The Federalist. “Unlike the Michael Brown case, we don’t have to rely on shaky and unreliable testimony from so-called eyewitnesses. We don’t need to review bullet trajectories or forensics. All we have to do is watch the video and believe our own eyes.”
“This is one of those moments where left and right could unite. Few seem comfortable with this outcome,” Noah Rothman of HotAir.com wrote on Twitter. He elaborated in a post on the website.
“Here’s hoping that something constructive comes from this horrible incident in which there are no heroes,” he wrote. “Unless aggrieved partisans start valuing reform and compromise over point-scoring, it will be next to impossible for anything other than stasis and mistrust to arise out of this regrettable event.”
Leon H. Wolf on RedState.com wrote: “This decision is really and truly baffling to me, and infuriating besides. I understand the vast majority of cops are good at their jobs and conscientious about protecting the civil rights of citizens. But there are without a doubt bad cops who make bad decisions and when they do so from a position of authority the damage they can do is exponentially worse.”
Fox News syndicated columnist and contributor Charles Krauthammer said the grand jury’s decision to not indict was “totally incomprehensible.”
“I think anybody who looks at the video would think this was the wrong judgment,” Krauthammer said. “The problem is in our system, you don’t have double jeopardy,” adding, “If a grand jury makes a mistake, that the way it is.”
Many reactions from other prominent conservatives were rounded up on HotAir.com.
“I don’t like Eric Holder, and in general don’t approve of Feds doubling up, but the Eric Garner case merits it,” tweeted Ken White, a libertarian. “This needs a U.S. Attorney.”
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6264886
Even conservatives are outraged by this. Black lives matter.
If only those bystanders with cameras had CHP and guns instead. They had a clear and present threat of someone being killed right in front of their very eyes and instead of recording it they should have produced their guns and if needed fired to stop those criminal thugs who have no respect for innocent law-abiding citizens. Oh wait, those were police doing the killing….never mind! My bad.
Starryflights :
I am glad the DOJ will be investigating Mr Garner’s murder. Those officers’ actions were totally unacceptable. Seems to be open season on black men by white cops. Black lives matter.
Starry,
Either you are willfully perpetrating a false narrative, or you have been duped by the false narrative being perpetuated by agenda-driven race-hustlers. According to the DOJ, black suspects are not killed by police at a higher rate than are suspects of other races, with respect to their percentage of the total population. Last year, 123 blacks were killed during interactions with police, while 338 whites where killed. Adjust for population, and there is no disparity. I suspect the perception that more blacks are killed, stems from media sensationalism, aided by the race – hustlers seeking a camera and microphone. Look at it this way: women disappear every day. Yet the media tends to sensationalize the cases where the victim is young, pretty, and often blonde. So, does this mean that it’s “open season” on blonde sorority girls? Of course not. These cases are but a fraction of the total of cases. No correlation. No causation.
I don’t believe that Eric Garner was “murdered” but I do think there was more than enough evidence to warrant a trial for either involuntary manslaughter or homicide. The cop who put the choke hold on him may have had a defense, but there was certainly enough evidence to warrant having a trial. If I were a juror on that trial I would vote for involuntary manslaughter unless there was really strong evidence to defend the cop.
It’s a much different situation than Michael Brown in Ferguson. It’s a disservice to Eric Garner to equate the two. It’s hard to see much Eric Garner could have done differently to save his life.
Agree and disagree: Lesser & included offenses where within the purview of this special grand-jury, so I am inclined to think there wasn’t enough evidence to justify indictments on those charges either. Do I think it’s a tragedy that a man died while being taken into custody for a very petty offense? Yes, I do. I think he made a bad choice to engage in selling loose cigarettes, and compounded that with resisting arrest, resulting in his death. I would think it a tragedy if someone jumps the fence at the National zoo, into a Lions den, and then gets mauled to death too.
I can’t say how I would have voted as a grand-jury member. I didn’t hear the testimony, or the forensic evidence. All I see is the video (shocking), shot by a bystander, reports from a news media who can no longer claim the mantle of “unbiased reporters of fact”, and talking heads on both sides, pushing a particular agenda. Our justice system is far from perfect, but it is what we have, and gets it right more often than not. The DOJ’s involvement, appears to me to be politically motivated, others may see it differently, but neither I nor them have read the grand jury report, so there’s that.
@Steve Thomas
I more or less agree. The points that stand out for me were that Eric Garner didn’t seem to be “resisting arrest” as in actively fighting with the cop so much as “not cooperating” For me there’s a big difference between fighting the cop and being uncooperative.
I’m not saying the cop is necessarily guilty, but tape seemed to show enough that a trial is warranted. If the cop was ultimately acquitted, that’s fine, but at least having a trial seems reasonable.
(Yes, I also know that if there had been a trial and the cop had been acquitted the “starrynights” crowd would be angry over that. Just like Trayvon Martin. The initial protests were about that Zimmerman wasn’t charged. Then after the trial, it became that he wasn’t found guilty.)
I do see a lot of similarities between Trayvon Martin & Michael Brown cases. Just not as much as Eric Garner. Garner certainly did some dumb things but nothing that should have reasonably caused his death. Trying to grab a cop’s gun is a quick way to get shot as Michael Brown discovered. But being uncooperative during an arrest shouldn’t be life threatening.
Lastly, that the cop used a choke hold that the NYPD no longer allows makes a difference to me as well. The choke hold isn’t “illegal” but it’s not an approved procedure for NYPD. If you a cop and somebody dies because you aren’t following SOP, that needs to be looked into.
Many have recoiled from the physical violence seen on the Garner video and the deadly result of that violence. A question does arise, however.. That was a very large man refusing to be cuffed. The cops did not use their guns or tasers. They did not beat him with nightsticks. They tried to wrestle him to the ground so they could put on the cuffs. It backfired badly — I suspect in part (but don’t really know) because of Mr. Garner’s very poor health. So, step back a moment to that time just before the cops jumped on Mr. Garner. If you were among those cops, how would you have gone about getting the resistant Mr. Garner into the cuffs and on the way to the station house? Those videos did not show much promise of being able to talk Mr. Garner into cooperation?
@Furby McPhee
Agree. What I never understood about this is why he wasn’t given a misdemeanor summons to appear, and let go. No attempt to apprehend means no chance for resisting arrest. Guy was selling cigarettes, not crack.
Don’t know why the decision was made to arrest vice issue a summons; but it might be because Mr. Garner had a long rap sheet with over 30 arrests since the age of 16, including three for “loosie” sales. You might call it a case of recidivism. You could tell from videos that he and the cops were not exactly unknown to each other. And it appears that ‘loosie” sales were part of the specific targets for those street patrols.
It sounds like a revenue chasing scheme to me. I would think in a city the size of New York, cops would have better things to do with their professional time.
And now I hear that the NYPD sergeant in charge of the Garner case on the street was a Black female. I thought I spotted very briefly a Black female cop in the video. If true, she would have the answer about arrest or summons. That also could complicate any DOJ civil rights case based on race.
Meanwhile, closer to home:
Feds say Fairfax County slowed federal investigation of John Geer police shooting
The Justice Department, attempting to explain why there has been no visible movement in the 15-month investigation into the Fairfax County police shooting death of John Geer, says in a newly released letter that Fairfax “withheld materials” from the probe and that there were “a number of challenges in investigating this case.” The letter also says that Justice has not given any instruction to Fairfax not to discuss the shooting, only the federal investigation itself.
The letter is below. It was the second response to Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), who last month asked five questions of both the Fairfax police and the Justice Department concerning the ongoing investigation. Geer was unarmed and was shot once in the chest as he stood in the doorway of his Springfield townhouse in August 2013 after standing and speaking with officers for 50 minutes. Fairfax police have refused to identify the officer or discuss why the shot was fired, and this week they declined even to reveal his age, length of service and assignment. The Fairfax police general order on release of information after a critical incident states that the department “shall release” such information “unless release may jeopardize the employee’s safety.” Capt. Dorian Portee declined to say why the information was being withheld.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/12/04/feds-say-fairfax-county-slowed-federal-investigation-of-john-geer-police-shooting/?hpid=z2
Don’t think something like this can’t happen here. It already has. Black lives matter.
Blame the politicos. They are the ones who raised taxes so high on cigs that many could no longer afford them except on the “tax-free” black market or as “loosies” for those addicted smokers really hard up for cash. Were the politicos so dumb they couldn’t see that coming? A cop is told to enforce the law, he enforces the law.
Also close to home, and hopefully something everybody can agree on:
Why in the world does the Manassas Park PD have an MRAP?
https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/dec/04/pentagon-finally-details-its-weapons-cops-giveaway/
Scroll all the way to the bottom and you can search by county nation-wide for what the DoD has given your local police. PWC & Manassas City both got a few rifles (something like 15 for PWC) Fairfax got 60 or so rifles.
But Manassas Park needed a Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle? What’s going on in the Park?
Probably hole lot you don’t even want to know about.
@Starryflights
Geer was white. What are you saying?
Lyssa is absolutely right. And here I was letting Starry lead me down some false racial road.
More media comments that the Black female NYPD sergeant is believed to have been the cop in charge on the street during the Garner incident. Also that there were other Black cops at the scene. Reportedly they came after Garner because he was the subject of specific complaints from local merchants about his “loosie” peddling on the street in front of their establishments. I was wondering why the video showed so many cops at the bust. It seems this was not just a random encounter by a patrolman.
I hear a good line on TV regarding cops and race. They said cops are not black or white, they’re blue. From my limited understanding of law enforcement I thought that summed it up nicely.