“I am a cop. I am Jewish. I am a Muslim. I am an atheist.”
3 million copies of Charlie Hebdo went on sale today which is about 4 times the usual distribution. The cover depicts a crying Prophet Mohammad carrying a sign saying I am Charlie. Above the Prophet are the words: All is Forgiven.
As citizens of the strongest democracy in the world. we have to ask ourselves if it is wise to poke the bear at this point. We HAVE to poke the bear. Charlie Hebdo HAS to poke the bear. We won’t back down.
We all live in pluralistic societies where we are free to speak our own minds, regardless of how obnoxious that free speech is. The sword must be the pen. The sword must not be machine guns and other weapons of destruction.
Those who object to mimicry of deities simply won’t be able to live in free societies like the United States, France, Great Britain, etc. Those who object that strongly must return to their little enclaves of repression and live out their lives in the darkness.
I have mixed feelings. I have always tried to live my life being respectful of other people’s religion, regardless of how ridiculous and stupid I thought that religion was, inwardly (inwardly being the operative word here). I think it is bad taste to mimic the religion of others. Jew jokes, Pope jokes, “Holy Roller” jokes, Mormon jokes are all bad taste when told or written publically. However, bad taste shouldn’t get you killed. People have a right to have bad taste.
As long as the government isn’t sponsoring the bad taste, pretty much anything should go…or should it? How about those Korans that the Reverend Terry Jones was going to burn? Did he have the right to do that, regardless of the firestorm that ensued? How about the incendiary behavior of Westboro Baptist Church as they mock our dead soldiers?
At what point, if terrorists keep attacking over depiction of the prophet Mohammad, is each country justified to simply deport the people raising hell over their deity?
These are questions we may be dealing with a lot sooner than we think. How far will we go to defend free speech in America? I thought the nadir of what we must accept was the ruling on Westboro Baptist. If we have to accept their bullsh!t then I expect any Muslim to suck it up and accept offense to their religion because Westboro sure offends mine.
Perhaps there should just not be any sacred cows. Good manners dictate that all the cows are sacred. Democracy dictates that there are none. That does seem to be the quandary.
The pressure shouldn’t be on this one niche periodical to “poke the bear”. We should all be poking it.
If you don’t like what happened, draw a stick figure of Muhammad sucking a *** and post it to Facebook or Twitter.
Seriously, the only way to discourage terrorism is to do the opposite of what the terrorists want. 3 million copies of the next Charlie Hebron issue is a good thing. But it’s cowardly for other magazines and internet outlets to refrain from showing images of Muhuammad. This is the 21st Century. We can say “Jaweh” out loud – 2000 years ago I would have been stoned for that – and we can draw Muhammad. Those with belief don’t get to tell non-believers how to act.
I don’t think it is that easy. Part of me wonders why I want to be that offensive to people who have done nothing to me.
I must ask Rick Bentley-“If you are willing to poke the bear, are you willing to take the consequences of doing so?” It is easy to sit in the comfort of your home and say, “We should all be poking it [the bear].” and “if you don’t like what happened, draw a stick figure of Muhammed sucking a *** and post it on Facebook or Twitter.”
Well Rick, I don’t know if you have a Facebook or a Twitter account-I looked but unfortunately Rick Bentley is a pretty common name. But if you do have you put your recommended, “…stick figure of Muhammed sucking a ***…” on your pages?
Just saying…
No – because I don’t have a particularly large following, and am in no position to start a social movement.
Rick Bentley’s not my real name BTW, I followed my wife’s advice years ago and used a different name for political ravings such as this. Good advice; whatever one posts about politics these days is likely to alienate half of potential employers. But if I DID use my real name, and had a lot of people looking at me, I’d consider posting a picture of Muhammad engaged in sex with a pig, while eating bacon.
Or, perhaps a more benign image than that.
Interesting to see that you are one of those folks Rick who hides behind a pseudonym for whatever reason. To me it seems says you don’t really have the strength of your convictions. and BTW, George Harris is my real name-it’s been with me for nearly 82 years and has stood me in good stead.
Well, what it says to me is that I plan to keep working for another 20 years, in Software Engineering, and that I’d prefer that a basic google search not reveal my blunt opinions which will manage to offend liberals and conservatives alike in places. My opinions will in one place or another offend nearly any potential employer who chooses to look at them. You can call that not having courage of convictions. But nearly everyone else I’ve met of my age who works in this field is similarly discreet. I think it’s the way of the world now.
I never thought I would see your name and discreet in the same sentence.
Throughout the long years, I have had many Muslim friends, colleagues, and acquaintances abroad — teaching colleagues, my students, diplomats, military officers, policemen, government functionaries, businessmen, household employees, and just plain neighbors. As I can recall, very few of them turned out to be radicals. They were more likely to be victims rather than comrades of the likes of Boko Haram or Al-Qaeda in the Maghreb (AQIM). Why would I want to deliberately insult the religious faith of all those friends, colleagues, and acquaintances just to poke a stick into the eyes of the radicals? We didn’t do that. We just went after the radicals either to bring them down or to bring them to justice. As you can see from the often indiscriminate jihadist violence in the Middle East and Africa, our work was intended to save those of any faith or no faith at all, including non-radical Muslims. In terms of what has happened in Paris, then, we ourselves were never really “Charlie.” We saw no sense to such scatter shot religious denigration.
Bet you didn’t burn any Korans either. I suppose you had the right to do all those things though. Having the right to do something doesn’t necessarily make it a good idea.
Very few things have made me want to go out and burn a flag even though I know I have the right to do so.
I am Charlie but with respect for others, (I hope)
Which reminds me….I was blog reading yesterday, the local ones. I saw that we are a liberal blog and that we are mean. I also saw that you had to agree with us or we would throw you off. It made me smile. I thought of Steve, Wolve, and Cargo in particular, who I consider regulars. Yea, you all are real liberals. NOT!!!
I think most of the time we are all able to have spirited debate, sometimes agreeing but usually disagreeing and still, at the end of most days, consider ourselves friends.
And just to add anther note: Many of the bloody terrorist groups we have fought over the past decades were not Muslim jihadists or other religious fanatics. They were Marxist and atheist.
The times, they are a’changing.
I think your point is well made. I wonder how Catholics would feel if someone put up a cartoon of a Pope, any Pope, having sex with Mother Theresa. I’m not certain they would go kill the cartoonist but surely there would be repercussions. I also have friends who are Muslims and while I don’t totally agree with their beliefs, I do my best to respect them. I greet them properly, particularly during Ramadan, I don’t make jokes about them but i do have a concern about the fact that moderates are not doing all they can to stop radicals, to include reporting them to the law.
As I noted on my FB page, if you poke the bear often enough, the bear will attack. Rick Bentley says we should further denigrate their religion. I say WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. And even worse, he hides behind a Nome de Plume. We don’t need that kind of crap.
“I wonder how Catholics would feel if someone put up a cartoon of a Pope, any Pope, having sex with Mother Theresa”
They would not start killing people.
I have friends who are Muslims too. I don’t let them tell me what kind of cartoons I’m allowed to draw.
You DO realize that women walking around without veils offends many Muslims also. Are you two pacifists ready to tell women to wear veils and stop educating themselves also? So that we can manage not to “poke the bear”.
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.
I don’t know who you are addressing Rick, but yes, I do understand that unveiled women, women driving cars, unaccompanied women, etc, etc, etc offend many Muslims but that is not slandering the Prophet or any other religious leader or religion. And, “I have friends who are Muslims too. I don’t let them tell me what kind of cartoons I’m allowed to draw.”–pretty big words for a guy who hides behind a nom de plume and has yet to put up the cartoon you recommended. I think Pope Francis has it about right:
Pope Francis says nothing justifies the murder of Charlie Hebdo journalists, but in his first extensive, personal comments on the Jan. 7 terror attack in Paris, the pontiff warned Thursday that mocking a person’s religion is dangerous business.
Like the dangerous business of insulting his mom.
“One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith,” the pope told said in a press conference aboard his Vatican plane, according to the translation from Italian by the CBS News reporter traveling with him to Manila, Philippines.
But he drew an analogy between the ridicule of religion – for which the satirical Charlie Hebdo was well-known – and the ridicule of one’s mother.
If a dear friend were to utter “a swear word against my mother, he’s going to get a punch in the nose. That’s normal,” said Francis, whose mother, Regina, died in 1981, when he was 44.
“There are so many people who speak badly about religions, who make fun of them … they are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to [my dear friend] if he says a word against my mother.”
“There is a limit. Every religion has its dignity … in freedom of expression there are limits,” he added.
Still, he condemned those who retaliate with war and murder.
“One cannot offend, make war, kill in the name of one’s own religion,” the pope said. “To kill in the name of God is an aberration.”
As for his own safety as leader of the Catholic Church and one who seems, wherever he goes, to be greeted by massive crowds that give his papal security detail heartburn, Francis admitted to “a dose of recklessness.”
And that he is afraid of pain.
“I have said to the Lord, ‘I only want to ask you one grace; Don’t make me feel pain,’ because I am not courageous in front of pain,” he said. “I am very, very timid.”
Moon, I don’t know what happened here and apologize for the clutter, hopefully you can fix it.
I hope I fixed it. That has happened to me before.
And Furby, slander doesn’t stop at slander of Islam, it includes slander against ALL religions.
We don’t have much respect for native Americans when we discuss Washington’s NFL team so the bar at which one can be offended and expect others to change as a result is pretty high hurtle.
Other than we hail and revere them. Well, maybe not so much this past year. Geez.
All religions are inherently funny. You’re choosing to believe that God reveals himself to you through other humans – who tell you how to live, and sometimes get money for it. It’s inherently hilarious.
I think people who are deeply religious often don’t need other human beings for a revelation to take place.
@Moon-howler
Thanks so much.
Heh, heh. I don’t think that radical Islamic terrorists referred to me and my kind as “pacifists.” More like “f….ing infidel pig warriors,” I would say. Badge of honor.
Don’t know what it is about atheists. They seem to talk about God more often than an old fashioned circuit preacher. Must be an obsession.
“There are so many people who speak badly about religions, who make fun of them … they are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to [my dear friend] if he says a word against my mother.”
“There is a limit. Every religion has its dignity … in freedom of expression there are limits,” he added.
Still, he condemned those who retaliate with war and murder.
“One cannot offend, make war, kill in the name of one’s own religion,” the pope said. “To kill in the name of God is an aberration.”
He’s wrong. There is no limit unless you infringe upon another’s rights.
But then, he’s not familiar with that idea.
He cannot say that a “punch” is justified when speaking in relation to this event. Because by Catholic doctrine…even a punch is wrong for such things.
However, there is such a thing as just war. And defense of innocence is a justification. When is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church going to comment about the Muslim insults to HIS Church when they SLAUGHTER thousands of Christians and burn churches?
Cargo, I gotta admire your hutzpah…you correcting the Pope and all.
As far as this Pope goes, there is simply a new sheriff in town.
I do agree with him about killing in the name of God. That has been the cause of more war than any other through out history.
Does anyone here actually think that the Pope talks to God?
He thinks he does, which is what is important, given his current role.
@Rick Bentley
As a Catholic…. his official word…doctrine….is infallible and binding on the Church.
It is MY choice to obey that doctrine and dogma.
So….it is MY actions that matter…whether or not he actually has the ear of God or not.
It is also your choice to cherry pick what you like and don’t like. (some would disagree) Plenty of people do.
Your actions only matter (as long as they are legal) to you and your higher power as far as godly type stuff is concerned.
Now if you go out drinking, drugging, gambling and womanizing, then it concerns Mrs. Cargo who would nail your squid hide up on the wall.
So Cargo, you’re deliberately making a choice to believe another person has greater (more direct) access to God than you?
The whole thing smacks to me of little kids wanting a parental figure to protect them from reality.
@Rick Bentley
You do realize that in Islam (the real thing) women can decide for themselves their own purdah (modesty)? There is absolutely no requirement for women to veil themselves. In fact at Mecca women are PROHIBITED to veil. Yes, right there in KSA, in Mecca, at Hajj, women are NOT allowed to veil.
Someone needs to tell the Holy men that in Saudi Arabia where they have been known to beat immodest women with sticks.
A good message: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtr32q_when-they-insult-our-prophet-muhammad-pbuh-nouman-ali-khan_lifestyle
DB, your “real thing” is someone else’s blasphemy. I said “many Muslims”, not all.