cold chixIs it cold enough for everybody yet?  It’s just perfectly dreadful, in my opinion and the wind makes it so much worse.

Does anyone have a plan to stay warm?  I just keep trying to sit close to dogs.

Last night was definitely a three dog night.  My faithful friend kept my feet warm all night.  Actually, I think he was using me.

109 Thoughts to “Open Thread………………………………Friday, February 13”

  1. Steve Thomas

    Does anyone have a plan to stay warm?

    We are 100% wood heat. Been that way for several years. Pellets and cut-wood. Nice to keep the house at 74 degrees and not have to worry about blowing up the electric bill.

    My plan? Throw more wood on the fire.

    1. What kind of set up do you have and how do you get the warm air throughout the house?

  2. Cargosquid

    Where the heck is all that global warming they’ve been promising us?

    I want it NOW!

    1. You don’t feel it because you are a non believer. You have to believe to feel the warmth.

  3. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :What kind of set up do you have and how do you get the warm air throughout the house?

    Pellet stove on the bottom level (finished basement). Woodstove fireplace insert on the top/main entry level. Most of the time, natural convection is enough. But, we have reversible ceiling fans that move the air quite nicely. We burn 3 tons of pellets and 2 cords of wood per year, and calculated that it has cut our pre-wood heating bill by 60%.

    1. Wow. I have a wood stove on my bottom level in the existing fireplace that doesn’t get used. I have the wood but …well that’s another story. Reluctance.

      Did you add the woodstove fireplace on the main level or was it built into the house originally? I have been thinking about putting a gas fireplace in upstairs. I might have to head on over to JE Rice. Maybe we could put fuel on the discussion list.

      I have a hybrid heating system. I have a gas furnace with 2 speeds that works in conjunction with an electric heat pump. My gas consumption per month costs me $75 on the budget plan. I have never owed and generally I end up paying too much. My electric is fairly high, probably averaging around 200 in winter but at least 120 of that is the millions of appliances that run here day in and day out. The house is heated by that heat pump until 40 degrees. The system is about 9 years old.

  4. Steve Thomas

    Plus, both the pellet and woodstoves have blower-fans, and my woodstove is one of the new catalytic high-efficiency models. Got a nice tax-break when we purchased it, as wood is considered “renewable energy”. Same with the pellet stove.

  5. Censored bybvbl

    We heated with a wood furnace for about nine years – cut, split, hauled our own wood. It was fun to slide the wood down the icy pathway to the door. However, a fire would never last more than 7 hours so we’d come home to and wake to a cold house. For a few years we lived with some supplemental electric coils built into the furnace before we went to propane and eventually to a couple heat pumps. The radiant heat is great but I don’t miss the clean-up or the old smoke smell.

  6. Steve Thomas

    @Censored bybvbl
    Censored, that’s the beauty of these new stoves: no smoke, and they burn so efficiently that there is much less mess, especially the pellet stove. I fill the hopper in the morning, and top it off in the evening. Dump the ash cup once a week. I bank the woodstove before bed, and again when I leave for work. Shovel ash every 3 or 4 days.

  7. Censored bybvbl

    @Steve Thomas
    A friend of mine has a pellet stove and likes it. I don’t think they were readily available when we had our furnace. In fact, it was hard to find a furnace and installer. Now we have a two-zone system that wouldn’t convert easily to wood.

    What I didn’t like about our furnace is that occasionally we’d come home to find the barometric damper stuck open. We never had a good draft. I think it’s because of how the house is built.

  8. Cargosquid

    Moon-howler :
    You don’t feel it because you are a non believer. You have to believe to feel the warmth.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  9. Wolve

    Mmmph! Just looked out the window. Light snow now on the ground in Eastern Loudoun. When the strong wind picks up, it looks like a blizzard. Go slow and carefully out there, drivers. Ice reportedly on the way.

  10. @Wolve
    Very bizarre weather here. The wind sounds insane.

    Here out west, they have a name, for rain and wind and fire….the raid is Tess, the fire is joe and they call the wind mar I ah.

  11. Wolve

    Forecast says that wind chill may drive the temps way below zero tonight. And, in the row of houses just behind us, the power has gone out — even with the local lines underground.

    1. Now that is scary. I have extra wood if anyone needs any. Just give me a call. I also have 4 wheel drive if anyone needs help.

      Wolve, I am sending my phone number to the address you use on this blog.

  12. Cargosquid

    Snow here. Went out to dinner…it was 45 degrees.
    Came out, snow was on any non cement surface….cars frozen. It was 34 degrees.
    This was about 90 minutes.
    Wind is gusting at about 30-40 mph.

    Supposed to get to 7 degrees with a high tomorrow of 26.

  13. Wolve

    Thanks, Moon. Doing O.K. so far. Power still out behind us though. Around here that usually means something happened at a junction box — tree fell on it or maybe a car slid off the road and hit it. Local media says temps may go as low as 15 below with wind chill. Wind is howling again.

    At least we don’t live in New England. They get yet another major snow storm. I hear that the police in New Hampshire have threatened to file a lawsuit against Puxatawney Phil over the six more weeks of winter.

    1. It was a while, roaring scary night. All that sound and not being able to see it. Wolve I hope everyone is safe out your way. I feared losing another tree. I live in fear someone else’s tree will fall on me.

      To all regulars here, if you need to have a contact number and email address I check many times a day, let me know and I will email it to you. (squashing the rumor that I am an anonymous person).

  14. Scout

    I’ve never understood why “wind chill” is a meaningful data point. Yeah, wind can be hard on trees and skin, but the temperature is the temperature. Water freezes a 0 degrees Celsius no matter how hard the wind is or isn’t blowing. I’ve decided that the TV weather boffins like wind chill because it can make things sound even worse. Good for ratings.

  15. Cargosquid

    @Scout
    Exactly.

    I HATE the wind chill idea since it is subjective. Just post the temps and let us deal with it. If “wind chill” was a real effect, the temp gauges would be at THAT temperature.

  16. George S. Harris

    WE have a high efficiency Carrier heat pump that works down to 15ºF ambient. This heat pump and air handler are unbelievably quiet. It is in a closet off of our kitchen and you have to listen very closely to even know it’s running. You hear air going through the ducts but that’s it. And it puts out warm air. You can stand right beside the outside unit and carry on a conversation in a normal tone of voice. When we had it put in, I asked the installer about setting it up as a hybrid system and he said, “Why would you want to do that? You won’t ever need it.” We’re on our third winter with this system and we’re very satisfied, our heating cost has gone way down-we had oil heat for 29 years and I hated it every day we had it-filthy, noisy and expensive.

    We have a wood fireplace that we use but it is more for ambience than anything else. Unlike others, I don’t have to tote in bags of wood pellets, put them in the hopper, empty the ash pot or any of that. I have to change the filter twice a year and that’s it. The system has an intelligent thermostat that tracks outside temperature, inside temperature and humidity. Life is good. Of course, if the electricity goes out well that’s a different story. Have considered a generator but haven’t had any long outages for the nearly 32 years we’ve been in our home. Oh, I did get a federal rebate for this high efficiency system.

    1. Are you able to get natural gas in your neighborhood? I have natural gas and I think that is why hybrid was recommended to me. Also, my system is probably 9-10 years old now. I am sure things have improved a lot.

      I wonder what is more cost effective: hardware, gas and heat pump or hardware for just heat pump now? (given that all materials were the same age and manufacturer)

      I do not use my wood stove but I could if I needed to.

  17. George S. Harris

    By the way, while you are thinking about how you are going to keep warm, think about the nearly 1,500 homeless people here in Prince William County. Oh, I know the Point-in-Time says we only have 545 people but I can tell you that is a bunch of crap. We have people in at least 40 camps in the woods, we have people living in cars, we have squatters living in empty house and we have street people who have no place to go. So while you’re thinking about your own creature comforts, think about how you might help these folks. Here is one program and the things they constantly need:

    Dale City Civic Association Homeless Outreach Program
    Donation Drop Off
    Every Saturday
    K-Mart Parking Lot
    Dale Blvd. Dale City
    11:00 AM -12 Noon
    Donations of the following items would be appreciated for our homeless outreach
    McDonalds gift cards
    Virgin Mobile phone cards
    Verizon mobile phone cards
    Trackphone cards
    Cases of water-something we take for granted
    Back packs
    Cases of canned soups
    Tents
    Winter Gloves
    Sleeping Bags
    Hats
    Rat Traps
    Cases of Toilet Paper
    Feminine products-particular difficult problem for women living in the woods.
    Cases of Hand Wipes
    Packs of Batteries – AA, AAA, C & D
    Blankets
    Tarps & Ropes
    Protein Bars
    Toilet Paper
    Canned meats
    Boxes of crackers
    Case of canned meat

    There are other projects=the Woodbridge Homeless Outreach, the 25th Project and others. Supervisor Pete Candland had a new program to collect these items-you can contact his office for details.

    At present the BOCS is doing nothing to help these folks. Let me repeat-NOTHING. They have a boiler plate answer but it is just that boiler plate that should b printed on toilet paper so that it would at least have some alternative use.

    1. Thanks for calling our attention to a huge humanitarian problem, George. This is killer weather for the homeless.

  18. Wolve

    George S. Harris :
    By the way, while you are thinking about how you are going to keep warm, think about the nearly 1,500 homeless people here in Prince William County. Oh, I know the Point-in-Time says we only have 545 people but I can tell you that is a bunch of crap. We have people in at least 40 camps in the woods, we have people living in cars, we have squatters living in empty house and we have street people who have no place to go. So while you’re thinking about your own creature comforts, think about how you might help these folks. Here is one program and the things they constantly need:
    Dale City Civic Association Homeless Outreach Program
    Donation Drop Off
    Every Saturday
    K-Mart Parking Lot
    Dale Blvd. Dale City
    11:00 AM -12 Noon
    Donations of the following items would be appreciated for our homeless outreach
    McDonalds gift cards
    Virgin Mobile phone cards
    Verizon mobile phone cards
    Trackphone cards
    Cases of water-something we take for granted
    Back packs
    Cases of canned soups
    Tents
    Winter Gloves
    Sleeping Bags
    Hats
    Rat Traps
    Cases of Toilet Paper
    Feminine products-particular difficult problem for women living in the woods.
    Cases of Hand Wipes
    Packs of Batteries – AA, AAA, C & D
    Blankets
    Tarps & Ropes
    Protein Bars
    Toilet Paper
    Canned meats
    Boxes of crackers
    Case of canned meat
    There are other projects=the Woodbridge Homeless Outreach, the 25th Project and others. Supervisor Pete Candland had a new program to collect these items-you can contact his office for details.
    At present the BOCS is doing nothing to help these folks. Let me repeat-NOTHING. They have a boiler plate answer but it is just that boiler plate that should b printed on toilet paper so that it would at least have some alternative use.

    Amen six ways to Sunday, George. And no doubt the Metro area shelters and rescue missions are full to bursting this week. They all need food and toiletries and cash to pay the bills.

  19. Wolve

    Have fun experiencing the Yukon Territory this week. Sgt Preston and his dog King may be somewheres about.

    We have a local skunk who hates the cold so much that he always comes to our place on cold nights and passes his special gas right next to our heat pump air exchanger.

    1. Oh no!!!! Can you put down skunk repellant? Mine seems to have moved on to greener pastures. Our housemate boarded up under the porch with logs etc. Maybe the skunk scent will freeze.

  20. Wolve

    Once, while on late night foot patrol for Neighborhood Watch, I was approached by a desperate widow lady living alone. She had fled her home in fear because she said there was a skunk in the house. She could smell the thing everywhere. She was afraid to go home. I had to take her back there and explain that it was unlikely the skunk was inside her house and show here how the skunk probably let off his bomb on her back patio. Boy, it took me a long time to convince her to go back into the house without calling the police or fire department.

    Nice lady though. Sharp-eyed too. She once filed an NW report with me that turned an ongoing police case in an entirely different direction. Saved the police a whole lot of time and effort.

    1. Is the Big Old albino skunk still there?

  21. Wolve

    Haven’t seen him lately. That guy must have been a senior skunk citizen.

    1. Maybe he went to the happy skunk hunting ground.

  22. Wolve

    Whoa! Did I hear it right that an old, old brick building in downtown Manassas just crumbled to the ground during the storm last night?

    1. I haven’t heard. Does anyone know?

  23. Pat.Herve

    @Scout
    Wind Chill (and Heat Index) are a very valid data point.

    Yes, the temperature is the temperature and it will not be lower than the ambient temp. But the wind chill is real – as the air is moved more rapidly over a heated surface the heat transfer occurs more rapidly as the air movement increases in speed. If you go out at 0 degrees Celsius with no air movement and with air movement – your body reacts differently and need to generate more heat with the additional air movement. Ever feel a draft in your home? Same thing. It is a valid data point – but the temperature itself is more important.

  24. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    No natural gas in my area unless you consider that produced by eating certain foods. 😉 You say your system is 9-10 years old and I can tell you there have been a lot of advances since that time both in furnaces and heat pumps. Our system was not inexpensive- $12,000 less some discounts. Hybrid systems are great, but we opted for the heat pump alone since we would have to have propane.

  25. George S. Harris

    @Scout
    Scout, since you say you don’t understand wind chill, here is a Wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

    If you read the article, you will see that wind chill doesn’t affect inanimate objects but it does affect humans and animals. For example, if the ambient temperature is 10ºF and the wind is blowing 20 MPH, the cold will feel like -9ºF on your skin-a difference of 19º. When the winds were blowing at 50 MPH night before last and the temperature was perhaps 6ºF, the wind chill was about -38ºF-your exposed skin would freeze in just a few minutes.

  26. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    That building was in terrible shape. I used house the dry cleaner there because they were really good and inexpensive and they are a family owned business. But for years, you could see that the mortar was deteriorating-lime was leaving out. So it was just a matter of time for this happened. It’s good that no one was in the building. The folks that owned the dry cleaner left for a couple of reasons-age (the owner was pretty old [my age I suspect] and had several health issues) and the landlord raised the rent. They said it wasn’t worth it.

  27. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    I hope people will do more than just read the piece and say, “Oh, that’s terrible”. I shop carefully, looking for sales on things like soups, water, socks, tents (I buy one a month-a 5 or 6 person tent for about $90 at Walmart). Some stores have soups at 10 for $10. Recently Harris Teeter had Progresso Soups at Buy 2, get 3 free. Tractor Supply Company and Harbor Freight have things like tarps, tent heaters and rope at reasonable prices. One of the groups recently had a “Soup and Socks” project-buy a couple of cans of soup and some socks, put them in a bag and give to a homeless person or to a project. ACTS and SERVE both have lists of things you can put together and contribute.

  28. Scout

    One of the true saints in Prince William County is Rose Powers and the work she does through the Streetlight Community Outreach Ministries in Woodbridge. You can look it up (www.the streetlight.org). Rose and those who help her have gone out into the woods to link up with the homeless and to provide food and clothing. Some of these people are living in cars, in tents, in lean-tos. They have gone from taking food out to running kitchens, buying low-cost homes, staging Christmas gift exchanges for children of the homeless and so forth. I am absolutely in awe of the dedication that Rose brings to this. Prince William should build a statue to her, she’s a local Mother Theresa. Of course, Rose would tell us to spend the money on the homeless. If you have even an hour a week or a spare fiver, think about Streetlight. It does wonderful work and is Christian love in action at its best. Streetlight’s annual fundraiser is 05 June. My wife and I will be there. Look into it, folks, and come along. They are making a difference. And it all pretty much started out of the good heart of one woman.

  29. George S. Harris

    I know there is some degree of animosity regarding Pete Candland but when he checked into the homeless situation, here is what he and his group of folks have done in just a few days:

    We collected donations from the following:

    The Sudley United Methodist Church, Manassas, VA
    The Park Valley Church, Haymarket, VA
    Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Chantilly, VA
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Centreville Stake – covering parts of Fairfax County, Prince William County, and Fauquier County

    During the coldest weekend of the winter season thus far, two full truckloads of donations were delivered to The 25th Project (a non-profit homeless advocacy group) and the Manassas Baptist Church Homeless Ministry over a two day period this past weekend, including:
    63 large propane tanks and 184 small propane tanks;
    13 portable heaters;
    approx. 230 cases of water;
    approximately 900 toiletry kits. including a large volume of feminine hygiene products;
    97 boxes of granola bars;
    numerous blankets/sleeping bags and clothing items;
    numerous canned and dry food items;
    and numerous bags of toilet paper/paper towels.
    $2,086 in cash, checks & gift cards
    People involved from the various churches are still calling to find out where they can drop off additional items.

    The response of this inter-faith effort was so overwhelming that a storage area had to be rented to accommodate storing the contributions to allow for the orderly distribution of the various donated items to the homeless population who need them most.

    Jay Herriott, Director and Founder of The 25th Project, stated that it was truly an act of God for this event to have been organized and scheduled on the coldest weekend of this winter so far, and that the donations were truly “saving lives that were at risk.” His work on behalf of the homeless, and that of the Manassas Baptist Homeless Ministry is truly inspiring.

    There are many saints in PWC-but sadly only one on the BOCS. I only hope he does not use this to make political hay but I’m not so sure I would be against doing so-he’s showing compassion for the less fortunate unlike the rest on the BOCS who simply wish the problem would go away.

    1. Many on the BOCS do things for those less fortunate. I must disagree that there is only one saint. I know of many good and decent things done by members of the BOCS and their staffs. That includes Pete who has done at least 2 walks I know of for those in need. I believe Mike May accompanied him on at least one of those walks.

      On a personal note, Marty and his wife spent hours on the phone with me one night, helping with a family problem. They didn’t have to. I feel certain that others do equally generous things with their time. I think it is hardly fair to make an unsubstantiated comparison. Some people do things quietly and call no attention to themselves. In praising Pete, and it sounds like he deserves kudos for stepping up to the plate, we don’t need to denigrate others.

      For the record, not agreeing on policy has nothing to do with animosity, at least not in my world.

  30. Wolve

    Moon-howler :
    @Wolve:
    Here you go
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Manassas-Building-292006501.html

    “I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house down!”

  31. Lyssa

    Lesley Gore died 🙁

    1. She was too young to die. Judy’s turn to cry.

  32. George S. Harris

    So please tell me what they have done for the homeless.

  33. Furby McPhee

    It’s wonderful to see a Federal judge defend the Constitution and strike down The Executive’s illegal amnesty. DHS was supposed to start issuing the illegal work permits on Wednesday, so hopefully The Executive will start obeying the law and stand down.

    One can always hope, I guess.

    1. Sigh. I thought it sucked. It also sucks that Congress is holding the Department of Homeland security hostage. No funding.

      Tell me, furby, do you see it as a good thing that those 5 million people with families will continue to live in the shadows? Do you think there might be a better way?

  34. Furby McPhee

    @Moon-howler
    No, I don’t see it as a good thing that those 5 million people are “living in the shadows” I’d like to see Congress get off its butt and do something about it.

    But the issue isn’t about 5 million illegal immigrants. It’s about The Executive wiping his ass with the Constitution. I’m sorry for the colorful language, but that’s about what he’s done. Prosecutorial discretion is a crock as the judge pointed out in his decision. Prosecutorial discretion wouldn’t require work permits to be issued and new ‘administrative law’ be created without Congress. Back when Obama cared about the law, he even said he lacked the legal authority to do what he did. But once the elections were over, he decided to usurp power from Congress and go rogue.

    There should have been a political firestorm like you’ve never seen when he did this. But unfortunately, too many people are blinded by their sympathy for immigrants to see the dangerous precedent that was set. We are either a nation of laws or we aren’t. And it’s clear which side The Executive chose.

    The better way is to rescind The Executive’s illegal orders and put pressure on Congress to finally do something about immigration.

    1. Congress won’t ever do anything about it Meanwhile families are being torn apart.

      I can’t argue the Constitution. I am not a lawyer. However, it seems like if the president can’t issue a temporary order, then who the Hell can.

      Congress is a disgrace.

  35. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :Thanks for calling our attention to a huge humanitarian problem, George. This is killer weather for the homeless.

    Chapel Springs Church (of which I am a member) has teamed with Manassas Baptist Church for the last few years, operating an emergency shelter for the homeless, when temps become life-threatening. They even go to the known homeless camps to transport people to the churches. In addition to warmth, food and hygiene facilities are provided. This was the vision and work of Mike Denman, Chapel Springs Church member, and a man of great compassion. http://www.northernvatimes.com/gainesville/article/2014-citizen-of-the-year-a-modern-day-moses

    1. That is fabulous to hear. So many people are doing for those who have so little. Thanks for sharing yet another special person. What is the homeless population in Prince William County and the cities? (rough estimate)

  36. Steve Thomas

    @George S. Harris

    George,

    I am with you, re: windchill. It is an important figure, as it seriously threatens life, and should be considered when doing anything outside.

  37. Wolve

    Hmmm…The swearing in at the White House of the new SecDef. That Joe Biden certainly has a case of the wandering hands when a woman gets within reach.

  38. Steve Randolph

    Cleaning out desk tonight and ran across clipping from
    the Manassas Weekly Gazette (1-13-1993) by
    Bonnie Hobbs. It notes that Thomas Jefferson, on his
    carriage ride to Washington for his 1800 inauguration,
    passed through what is now Manassas. He spent a
    night near Champ’s Raceground (later Old Dominions)
    after which he went down Dumfries Rd., up Liberty St.
    and on to Centreville Rd. towards D,C..

    Don Wilson with the PWC Publc Library, was one of those
    credited with providing information for the story.

    Liberty Street ring a bell?

  39. Scout

    Thanks for the education on windchill, George, Pat and Steve. I guess if I know that it’s below 0 degrees C., I dress accordingly and don’t much care about the wind. However, I can see that for pets or livestock and folks who might not have proper clothing or good sense, it’s important.

    @ Furby – you are mistaken about what the Texas trial judge did: He issued a Temporary Restraining Order based not on consitutional grounds – which he did not reach, but rather on what he perceived as a probable fault in the Administration’s failure to conform to the rulemaking requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act. The merits will be addressed later. Of course, if one doesn’t approve of the President’s actions, the effect in that particular Texas district is a welcome one. I suspect that the grant of the TRO itself will move very fast up the appellate ladder and may reversed at the Circuit, and may or may not be reinstated by the Supreme Court.

    I also would suggest to you that the reason there wasn’t a firestorm of protest has little to do with sympathy for immigrants (although that may be a part of it), but more of disgust with Congress’s failure to protect the country’s interests through a major overhaul of our immigration laws. Congress simply has turned its back on the issue in favor of cheap grandstanding for the uninformed, easily frightened vote, a vote which while not a welcome presence in a Republic, is certainly numerous and easily manipulated.

  40. Jackson Bills

    Wolve :
    Hmmm…The swearing in at the White House of the new SecDef. That Joe Biden certainly has a case of the wandering hands when a woman gets within reach.

    You beat me to it… Joe is building himself quite a reputation of being overly creepy with other guys wives and daughters at these events. Remember when he did a similar thing with someones daughter as she clearly didn’t want him that close to her? Just what a young woman wants, an elderly man getting too close to them and whispering in their ear.

    1. I guess they have all told you this personally?

  41. Furby McPhee

    @Scout
    I don’t disagree with you, because we are both right. The money quote from the decision is:

    In sum, this Court finds, both factually based upon the record and the applicable law, that DAPA is a “legislative” or “substantive” rule that should have undergone the notice-and-comment rule making procedure mandated by 5 U.S.C. § 553.

    Back to me:
    Where the Constitutional element comes into play is that Congress has never delegated APA authority to DHS. (I don’t even think the Administration claims that Congress ever did. Otherwise they would have just used notice and comment and issued the amnesty as a regulation.) So the judge’s ruling that DAPA is legislative in nature coupled with no delegated APA authority makes it a separation of powers issue.

    I don’t disagree that a large part of the country wishes Congress would do something about immigration. What is disappointing to me is that too few people support the Constitutionally correct way of fixing this problem (political pressure and/or a new Congress) and are willing to take the easy, but illegal way out of The Executive’s amnesty. Sadly, The Executive’s illegal amnesty makes passing any time of legal immigration reform bill that much harder.

    It was sad watching Loretta Lynch try to tap dance around how The Executive’s precedent couldn’t be applied to make new tax law. I felt sorry for her having to try to defend the undefendable. I hope the Solicitor General does a better job in the future. (To be clear, I want the SG to fail because it is clearly illegal. But I at least don’t want such an embarrassing spectacle)

  42. Scout

    What you are saying, Furby is that I am right about the court’s opinion and you are right about your opinion. OK, I’ll accept that.

    However, I am curious: if you are saying that DHS isn’t subject to the Administrative Procedure Act because Congress has not so directed, then why would the Judge have decided that DHS should have used APA procedures (hence the reference to 5 U.S.C. sec. 553)? Your view on this surprises me a bit, because certainly many of the sub-agencies of DHS enact rules pursuant to the APA, and I assume CBP is subject to APA requirements (although I don’t do much work with them and I could well be wrong about how they go about issuing regulations – Customs and Immigration have always had special niches in the law relating to their action at the borders and their intimate tie to foreign affairs). Perhaps you are picking up on something about how DHS went together at its formation post 9/11 that I have not had reason to stumble over.

    We’ve now had years of Congressional braying about this, but absolutely no constructive legislative work. If the President’s actions were extra-constitutional, they are invalid and the courts will so find, but Congress has done the Nation great damage on this issue.

    By the way, I’m not as sure as you that what was done was illegal, at least not in its entirety. The APA argument is a better argument for opponents of the President than the Constitutional argument. All presidents have used a great deal of discretion, discretion that clearly they have, to deal with immigration enforcement policy. This present step exceeds those in its detail and scope and I think there is a good argument that the EO process essentially was rulemaking. But if you are right that DHS is not subject to APA, then that argument goes poof.

  43. Ray Beverage

    @George S. Harris

    Have to agree with you on the Point-in-Time (PTI). There are those of us in the Housing Advocacy Circles who say move it to July or August as then you would find a real sense of the number of homeless actually outside.

    Of course, when Housing & Urban Development has one definition you must use, yet Department of Education has another you can’t use, it again makes the PIT some what of an arbitrary number. Unfortunately, that is also the number HUD uses to pass out the money.

    1. I find it horribly hypocritical for supervisors to go all “go homeless” at the same time they are cutting the budget. the budget cuts this year are so bad that nearly all non-essential people (which the homeless are not) have services cut.

      Its one thing to round up tents, propane tanks, blankets soup and granola bars with media attention and quite another to provide sustainable services for the homeless populations.

      Then there are those who have been working for years with Prince William’s homeless population. Obviously the BOCS members have known about PWC homeless all along. They have always been out there. Its pretty damn cold out there even when the temperatures aren’t record-setting.

  44. @George S. Harris

    There are many saints in PWC-but sadly only one on the BOCS. I only hope he does not use this to make political hay but I’m not so sure I would be against doing so-he’s showing compassion for the less fortunate unlike the rest on the BOCS who simply wish the problem would go away.

    I thought I could walk away from this statement but I cannot.

    The homeless have always been out there. What the entire BOCS needs to do is vote for a realistic budget instead of the insanity proposed by Pete Candland, whose praises George is singing. Good for Pete spearheading a food and supply drive at the last minute. HOWEVER…

    shame on him for proposing that draconian cut to the 5 year plan. Taking care of the homeless is not mandated or essential. There is no way the county can sustain any efforts in this regard. Check out the budget. All the extras are out. All the things that make us a caring community. The partnerships we used to form with the non0profits are pretty much gone like the Boys and Girls club.–gone.

    Those partnerships made sure our tax dollars reached a lot of people. Yet people like Pete and “his base” want to stomp them out. Shame on all of them.

    See my thread.

  45. The Derecho

    @Moon-howler
    Moon, I will detail this this afternoon or tomorrow but I think you need to take a step back and understand that most of these draconian cuts are little more than Peacor throwing a flashbang at the BOCS. Take a look at the budget detail on page 141 of the proposed budget and add the salaries and benefits for that department in 2012, $2,223,168 and then in 2016, $4,331,971. On its own, that is an increase of 100%, $2,108,803 to be exact. Then look at page 142 and review Transportation’s FTE, 52.8 in 2012 and 42.8 in 2016.

    I’ll let you do the rest of the calculations on your own so as not to bias the outcome.

    Then we can talk about what programs and services should be cut in view of Peacor’s true priorities as well as the disparate treatment of those poor transportation department employees as compared to lets say teachers.

  46. Steve Thomas

    Wouldn’t it be nice if faith-based and other charitable organizations could replace the local governments in helping out neighbors? Then we could remove this from the whole budget scrum. Is it possible? I think so.

    1. There are some things that only government can do.

      For example, privacy laws prevent some agencies from helping. I like partnerships.

  47. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :There are some things that only government can do.
    For example, privacy laws prevent some agencies from helping. I like partnerships.

    Yes, there are things that only civil authority can accomplish: Secure the Peace, Administrate Justice, Restrain evil.

    Helping a neighbor? Anyone can do that. Our society has just chosen to abdicate much of this to the government. “I pay taxes, let the government help them.” “Wait, you want to pay more taxes?”

    1. I was thinking more globally. I was thinking about calling out the national guard and things like that.

  48. Ed Myers

    We ask government to administer some aid because it has the big picture to identify if the aid is being distributed fairly and to all people in need. When private groups are the only providers of service there is an opportunity to miss pockets of people–to discriminate, perhaps intentionally for ideological reasons.

    When there is a patchwork of aid groups it is pretty easy for scammers to get assistance from each group at the detriment of those truly in need. That said the overhead of a government program is also wasteful so you need some hybrid between a one-size-fits-all government programs and a bunch of private charities that aren’t very efficient at raising money or providing blanket coverage.

    1. I hadn’t even thought of that, Ed. government should make sure supplies and support are evenly distributed.

      One of our homeless communities is comprised of gays. Would a church who opposed homosexuality distribute the homeless supplies evenly? I want to think yes but I can’t answer that question.

  49. Steve Thomas

    @Moon-howler
    ” Would a church who opposed homosexuality distribute the homeless supplies evenly? I want to think yes but I can’t answer that question.”

    I can’t speak for other churches, but I know mine would. Alcohol and Drug abuse are sins, but my church would help the homeless alcoholic and addict. Jesus didn’t come to save the righteous (or self-righteous). He came to save the sinner. All have sinned, and all sin is equal in the eyes of God. So, the homosexual homeless person is just as entitled to grace, as the is the gambler, the drunkard, the addict, the…..

    1. gossip, the wife beater, the stingy, the …..

      I would agree but afraid there are many churches who wouldn’t. Then there is the question of proselytizing. Some folks just can’t resist. repent all ye sinners and ye shall eat and be warm. Not everyone would do that but some would, both churches and individuals.

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