When Republicans scored their big victory in the midterm elections of 2010, they looked like a party on the rise after a devastating pair of losses in 2006 and 2008. Instead, they have become a party in almost permanent disorder, torn by warring factions and near-constant tensions between their establishment leadership and a tea party-infused grass roots.
Now, in the wake of GOP House Speaker John A. Boehner’s stunning announcement Friday that he will step down from his post and resign his seat in Congress at the end of October, the question again arises: Can a party so driven by anger, a party divided over confrontation vs. compromise, actually govern in Washington?
Boehner’s decision to quit, and the suddenness with which the news broke, provided one more piece of evidence of how badly strained the Republican coalition is. His inability to corral his unruly members was legendary and, seemingly, never-ending, a series of “Perils of Pauline” moments that brought temporary truces but never fully resolved the debate about the kind of party Republicans want.
Those divisions have infected the battle for the GOP presidential nomination. Anger at Washington among grass-roots Republicans has turned the party’s nomination contest upside down. In the early autumn of 2015, non-politicians such as Donald Trump, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina are prospering at the expense of those who are governing or have governed at the state level.
Most of us were speechless today when the banner came across the bottom of our TV screens, announcing Speaker Boehner’s resignation. I don’t understand how it all happened or why his resignation will keep the government from shutting down. I just haven’t had time to digest it.
I am pretty sure most of us will miss him. He is a decent man. He tried for compromise. He was enough of an adult to realize that he isn’t always going to get his own way.
Do I blame the Tea Party? Absolutely. Their America is not my America. Once again the choppy stock market shows market jitters over the possibility of a shutdown. I am tired of these people messing with my money and jeopardizing my country over their misguided politics.
The republicans are leaderless and rudderless. Many moderate congressional republicans are disappointed and blame the tea party for the speaker’s resignation. Boehnor was planning to resign until Eric Cantor got tossed. The republicans are truly lost in safe.
“The republicans are truly lost in safe.”
What does that even mean?
What is your reaction to Boehner’s departure? I am very upset over it. (I guess that was obvious.) But good for him. He got sick of all the crap. I can relate to getting sick of all the crap. He just woke up and decided…that’s it. I made that kind of decision myself. He won’t be sorry and neither was I.
Lost in space, I meant.
He quit on a high note. The Pope’s visit was important to him. Yesterday was as good as it gets for him. Why not quit at the top?
Get out of our head! Elena and I were just theorizing about that tonight. it wasn’t going to get any better for him.
Then there is the idea that he was just tired of their crap.
Did you ever see Boehner happier than yesterday? Zip-a-di-dooda….
25 years in Congress and only 66~ He can look forward to a nice, comfortable
future.
Without trying to herd cats!!!
God only knows what they’ll do to themselves and us now. Cannibals….
Rudderless and without a real course….
I guess I will be kissing my portfolio good-bye. R’s deny that the last 2 financial uprisings had anything to do with the market but that’s not what financial advisors will tell you.
Imagine a Trump as president and this kind of factional tensions across both branches of government. Could the Democrats ask for anything better in terms of presenting a contrast of governing style to the American people?
Ideological differences between the parties isn’t important if one party doesn’t have the temperament to run the essentials of government and accept incremental change toward their ideological goals as sufficient. This is a major rejection by the Republican Party of the independent voter who favors bi-partisanship. Hillary must be doing high-fives all around.
Are we sure Boehner isn’t positioning himself for a presidential run after Trump flames out?
I guess it is up to me to present the conservative side. Here it is: buh-bye Boehner. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Conservatives want someone who is at least willing to fight for our values. The guy’s heart was never in it–he just wants to get along and make a deal. A poll came out this week that showed an astounding 62% of Republicans feel betrayed by the party leadership. Boehner had to go.
The person who is likely to be the most upset by Boehner’s resignation is Obama. He lost his patsy.
In what reality did all this happen. Boehner is a conservative by most people’s standards. He also realized that you don’t always get what you want and that most of Washington operates on compromise–quid pro quo.
I think what some people want is a bunch of thug bullies who are simply going to roll over the top of the rest of us. That simply will not happen. The numbers are not in your favor.
All the moderate Republicans plus all the moderate Independents plus all the liberals….do the math.
@Ed Myers
I think Republicans would have been mollified if Boehner had accomplished any incremental change favored by conservatives. His perfect record was unblemished by any significant win during his tenure as speaker.
It does not bode well for those of us in the center – who think neither wing (left or right) has the correct solution. I think Congress is going to get more dysfunctional – if that is even possible. For all the complaints about Boehner he has a sense of reason.
Here comes the shutdown.
Here comes the shutdown and there goes my portfolio and everyone else’s. All so there can be some sense of chest thumping.
Shutting down the govt last time cost over 2 billion dollars.
All over Planned Parenthood. Most people don’t know enough about Planned Parenthood to put it in a jar.
Seriously, did anyone think stem cell and harvesting of tissue was pretty?
Furthermore, why would anyone believe liars…people who misrepresent themselves for a cause?
Any of us who have driven cross-country with a carful of fractious children know that it can be tiring. Boehner is entitled to be tired. He protected the silly wing of the Party as best he could for as long as he could. He protected them from the “victories” that Kelly wants, but that would have endangered the country and certainly hurt the GOP politically. He has done enough. Time to move on. Who knows what comes next. I doubt if it will be an improvement.
He tried to fall on the sword for the Party. Unless the Republicans get rid of the crazies (like Cruz et al) there really isn’t much future hope.
@Kelly_3406
What’s wrong with “getting along”? That’s how things get done.
It’s give and take that finally reaches a goal that both sides can
accept.
@MH
Yes, but an effective Speaker should get what he wants some of the time. What quid pro quo did Boehner ever get? Obama presents Boehner with a “compromise” and invites him to take it or leave it. Of course Boehner always takes it.
Despite what the pundits are saying, Boehner is not very good at compromise at all. Take the current standoff with PP. Boehner should have acknowledged that PP provides important services, but asserted that Congress needs to investigate allegations of gross misconduct. He could have proposed to cut funding to PP by 50% while Congress investigates and looks for alternatives to provide these critical services to women.
Who knows whether he would have been successful, or not? But it would have changed the national conversation, and made the Republicans appear less intransigent and more sympathetic to women.
Instead he handled it in the same all-or-nothing, ham-handed way that guarantees another loss. Since he does it that way every time, it sure appears like winning is not a huge priority for him.
I think that compromise is when everyone walks away with a little of what they wanted. It has happened time and time again actually.
As for Planned Parenthood, there is no gross misconduct. Either they were selling body parts or they weren’t. If they were selling body parts, then it is illegal. If they weren’t, then no harm. I expect they were covering handling charges, as they said. Furthermore, all Planned Parenthoods aren’t involved with tissue donation.
If Congress wants to have a hand in controlling then perhaps they should have said no tissue donations to any organization or business that gets Medicaid or medicare reimbursement.
On the other hand, we know that no federal money pays for abortion. It is prevented by the Hyde Amendment. So where is the exact cause/effect?
The sequester is a very good example of compromise. Everyone got screwed.
@punchak
There has been mostly “give” from Boehner, and little “take.” There is nothing wrong with trying to get along if you first establish yourself as a tough negotiator and earn the respect of the other side. But if you are viewed as a pushover, then “getting along” is a hindrance. Obama clearly does not respect Boehner at all.
Think Tip O’Neil. He was a tough, hard-nosed Speaker, who had the respect of Reagan. He could afford to “get along” when it suited his interests.
Boehner is no Tip O’Neil.
I can’t think of a single person who felt Boehner was a pushover. Obama sure didn’t. Half the time he wouldn’t return Obama’s phone calls or accept his invitations. Pelosi sure didn’t see him as a push over. Boehner also stood firm against the Tea-jihadists. That’s probably who has their noses out of joint.
They won’t win. Not in the long run.
How could you say that Boehner was all give and no take.
Did we get our grand bargain? A vote on the Gang of 8 immigration bill? Tax reform? No, we got none of that that but we did get 75 votes on repealing Obamacare.
A couple of quick thoughts. First if Kevin McCarthy becomes leader, and I do not think that is a done deal in no small part because he is perceived as at least as liberal as Boehner, he will own whatever happens in Congress and, if the Democrats want to work with him on anything, they will need to support the defunding of Planned Parenthood, stopping Obama’s illegal immigration and amnesty schemes and other Obama assaults on constitutional government. The funny part comes from the DNC talking points that the new leader will need to work with liberals due to their fantasy that liberal Obamaites represent the center majority. That is exactly why Boehner fell. And Moon, anyone who does not know what Planned Parenthood has been doing is purposefully avoiding the issue, and confusing what they are doing with women’s health is a disgrace. Planned Parenthood needs to be excluded from the current entitlement programs. That will allow other groups to have access to the existing funding to fill in the gaps, if any. The use of the phrase, “defunding” is in no small part Boehner’s fault
Boehner’s idea that conservatives must get along with the liberal minority is widely acknowledged to have resulted in the fact that committees and oversight have become a joke under Speaker Boehner. The long list of scandals from the IRS, Benghazi, EPA, VA, OPM, and the ever evolving Clinton email scandals are just the inside of the beltway tips of the iceberg. I am with Kelly on this, the idea that only republicans need to compromise has resulted in Boehner’s disgrace. Republicans need to go with the nuclear option on a regular basis just to even the score over how they were teated over Obama care from one end to the other.
Whoever the new speaker is, it will be a strategic competency that is sought, one that does not allow the Democrats or their media allies to shift the blame for a shutdown on them. It is Democrats not Republicans that are willing to play chicken with the American people and services over $500 million for their pet project, at time when outsiders are ruling the roost in the presidential race.
What planet to you all live on? You aren’t in touch with reality if you think Boehner is a liberal.
Just what is it that you think Planned Parenthood is doing?
There is no entitlement program. They get Medicaid reimbursement and Title X funds. They don’t get them all. Other organizations get both of those also.
Do you think these other places are just going to spring up? Bwahahahahahahahaha.
Planned Parenthood needs to stay. Congress needs to investigate these false reports if they are investigating Planned Parenthood. These morons would believe anything because its what some in Congress want to hear.
Back to the question–just what is it you think all of Planned Parenthood is doing?
Boehner had to go. When you lose the confidence of large chunks of the party base, as well as a growing portion of the elected representatives of the base, you have lost the ability to govern effectively. He may have been tired of dealing with the more conservative elements of the congress, he’d lately made the mistake of ignoring them, or worse, retaliating against them. This only fed the perception (arguably an unfair one) that he’d rather compromise than fight, and had basically become a “Quisling”.
The GOP has gone through similar periods, most recently in 1994, when an upstart named Gingrich became speaker. Better to get this sorted out in 2015, than in 2016. It will get sorted out, at least for a time.
Well maybe Ted Cruz will step down from the Senate and everyone will be happy an never win another election.
“On the other hand, we know that no federal money pays for abortion. It is prevented by the Hyde Amendment. So where is the exact cause/effect?”
That argument is a “shell-game”. If someone is receiving SNAP entitlements for food, and the money that would have otherwise spent on food is spent on illegal drugs & alcohol, the offset of expenses is indeed enabling the less-desirable activity. If the real intent of the funds is to promote “woman’s reproductive health”, then give it to real community clinics that don’t perform abortions, and stipulate that in-order to receive the funds, the clinic must provide contraceptives and breast-cancer screenings. This would satisfy both camps; the pro-life movement, and the “pro-woman’s health” by addressing the key arguments of both. And yes, I am aware that this would could also endanger funding for faith-based woman’s health clinics that do not provide contraceptives due to religious objections. If planned parenthood wants to provide abortions, let them get private funding. If faith-based clinics don’t want to provide patient contraceptives, let them get private funding. This is the only, intellectually honest way to ensure that public money isn’t paying for abortions, and the sale of body-parts for profit.
No. Abortion is legal in the United States. No federal money goes towards abortion. Period. It hasn’t for 25 years.
No body parts were being sold. Geez. Steve, I am surprised you drank that kool aid also. You don’t even know the source of those pictures. Neither do I. I believe that people who lie to one source will lie to the other.
How about MY compromise–all state affiliates get out of the business of stem cell tissue donations. Let the private sector do that.
When the people most regretting Boehner’s departure are Democrats, you know that it is time for him to go.
As for the “shut downs,” the democrats are the ones that refused to compromise. If the gov’t shuts down this time, its because the President values PP over the rest of the government. And HE is the one that decides what to pay if there is no budget. Whatever is not paid……is DIRECTLY on him.
As for the stock market jitters, this has nothing to do with any possible shut down. It has everything to do with the realization that the economy sucks and nothing Obama and the Democrats are doing is helping. The FED is out of options and is thinking of raising rates….thus…the jitters. The days of free money is coming to an end.
The stock market is a bubble. NOTHING has been fixed since 2008.
The stock market always reacts to government shut down. Why would you say it didn’t when nearly all analysts disagree with you?
A bubble? Do you have investments in the stock market?
Interesting how you are willing to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood. Yet you say that Obama is failing to compromise? I just don’t think he likes bullies.
I don’t think you live in political reality. I look at my portfolio this morning and I gag. Thanks Tea-jadists!
Any shutdown will be blamed on the Tea Party and the Republicans. Most Americans are willing to compromise. The Tea Party, which makes up 30% of a party which makes up 30% of the population, does not represent the will of the American people. Obama will not have to shoulder the blame for a shutdown except in the reactionary right’s eyes. Any new speaker who represents that wing of the Republican Party will be a failure. Ask Kansans how that type of agenda works.
Members of Congress are sent to Washington to govern, not to put a gun to the head of the government and put it in a position where its operations will cease. The very thought that there is an issue that should not be dealt with through direct legislation, as opposed to creating a situation where Congress will halt all operations of government unless it gets its way, is a complete abrogation of the obligation to govern. Any fool can think of procedural devices by which the authorization and appropriations functions of Congress are used as guns to the head of the overall functioning of the federal system. However, no one with an ounce of responsibility to the nation would advocate that they be used.
@Scout
Scout – +1
Furthermore, Congress in the recent future has manufactured crisis after crisis – that has had REAL effects on our economy. Right now, there are many companies spending 10’s of thousands of dollars and many people’s work hours planning on a potential shutdown next week. Dollars and hours that cannot be spent on other activities. With the impending budget talks – oh, what budget talks – if this were a real issue that needed be addressed by any real family or business – they would be in the office right now trying to figure out a fix to their problem. But our Congress will kick the can down the road or shutdown – neither is a solution to the problem at hand. A publicly traded company would have SOX compliance issues if it performed this way.
Standing ovation to both Scout and Pat. You hit the nail on the head. This Taliban like behavior really needs to stop. Congress shouldn’t be acting like thugs to get their own way.
I think maybe too many folks are just watching way too much FauxNews. They are overdosing.
When John Boehner is called a liberal, I know there is an issue.
Can we please stop comparing fellow Americans to terrorists and hostage takers? What ever happened to the cries for civil debate.
If we need a refresher on true “Taliban like behavior” Ill be glad to post links of stories and pictures of little girls with acid thrown in their faces or shot in the head for attending school… you know, Taliban like behavior.
No, we can’t stop.
There are similarities. Both want to institutionalize religion in the government. Ever listen to Cruz?
Funny you didn’t address the fact that Boehner has been called a liberal. How realistic is that? S-T-R-E-T-C-H.
If you are going to call for an end to hyperbole, start with your own side.
BTW… I love how we are talking about the possible “permanent disorder of the gop” and not the clown show that is the Democrat party right now. The best thing that ever happened to the GOP is Debbie Wasserman Schultz. I hope she leads the DNC for many many many years to come.
Bwahahahahahahahahahah
Is THAT the best you can do?
Hopefully McConnell will join Boehner.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/poll-72-gop-voters-dissatisfied-boehner-mcconnell-n433731
Let’s see, talk radio people, Tea Partiers, Very Conservative Republicans, Trump supporters and men are the top 5 groups of Boehner/McConnell haters. There is probably something very contagious there. I would be careful.
There are just enough of you all to make certain that the White House remains illusive. I see a bunch of loud old men sitting around and making bad Hillary jokes in 2017. If not Hillary, then Biden or Bernie jokes. You don’t have the numbers. Do the math. Unfortunately, what you all do is hand the country over to those whose politics you hate. Why be seen like that. Try to become something relevant with your own political thoughts. Otherwise, you will just spend a life-time of bitching.
@Moon-howler
I drank the koolaid? What koolaid? I’ve seen videos of Planned Parenthood executives discussing the practice whilst stuffing their mouths with Cobb Salad and drinking a nice merlot. I’ve seen the “less-crunchy methods” video. You can dismiss one or two, but when there been a half-dozen videos of actual Planned Parenthood staffers talking about the practice, I’m not the one in denial. We aren’t talking about biopsy tissue sent to medical schools post-analysis. Yes, abortion is legal but any public money given to this organization is offsetting some cost dealing with abortion. The whole “separate buckets” argument is about as truthful as a Clinton Foundation explanation of no quid-pro-quo.
Do you think tissue harvesting is pretty? Its really difficult to tell who works where or for whom. It is also impossible to tell where videos came from. You have no proof that some of them are from Planned Parenthood. I am particularly suspicious of the fetus that looks remarkably like a still birth.
All I know is this–if someone wants to set up something to present the worst possible scenario, it can be done and often is. That’s how propaganda is done. As we have discussed, (and on a personal level) you were smart enough not to get caught in the trap. Not everyone is. (looking around my neighborhood)
I don’t believe people who have set out to get the dirt on others by misrepresenting themselves and lying about who they are. Its easy enough to do when everyone is up-front.
I have said multiple times, I have no problem with a provision about no tissue donation at Planned Parenthood if federal funds are involved. that takes all the guess work out of the current problem. Fetal tissue donation isn’t so scarce that we can’t leave it to the private clinics.
One more thing, on a local note. If money is to be made off of it, you can bet your bottom dollar it would be happening locally. It isn’t.
This is just another red herring. Some conservatives see Planned Parenthood as an instrument of the Devil because is has a non-judgemental view of sex. This has gone on for decades. Then finally a group with an agenda just happens to go in and find body parts being sold? I think not.
If Congress investigates Planned Parenthood, then I hope they are honest enough to also investigate the group that created the videos and the videos themselves. I expect they, if honest, will find many a rat in that stew.
@Moon-howler
You are assuming an Obama-like turnout model. Neither Bern nor Hill can hope to replicate. Don’t assume that the millions of GOP voters who sat out 2012 will stay sidelined.
I doubt Hillary makes it past next June.
No, I am not assuming an Obama-like turnout. Not even close.
I am placing no bets on anyone. The Obama turn out was unique. Many a foolish Democrat counted on Obama-like turn outs that just went there. They aren’t in office now. I have also had many an argument with people over this phenomena. So…don’t hang that one on me.
As for GOP voters…I don’t pretend to know what makes a lot of them tick either. Let’s start with Trump. Who would have thought he would be out in front. Who would vote for him? How about Republicans that hate bad manners? I don’t think they would. On the other hand, his tax plan might compensate for a lot of bad manners.
@Moon-howler
Yes…. we do…. still a bubble.
I owned a home during the home bubble too.
And both of those bubbles were created with government malfeasance.
If the entire budget except PP is funded, and that budget is vetoed……that is direct evidence that the President values one single entity that is skating the law and committing atrocities over the health of the nation.
There are no atrocities being committed. Planned Parenthood provides legal services.
There is no direct evidence. Read the thread I put up this morning.
I hope the President values Planned Parenthood and keeps his commitment reproductive rights, Title X,. etc. I would be mighty disappointed if he doesn’t.
The government doesn’t control the stock market….but you knew that. What is happening right now is investor jitters over a potential shutdown. this happens each time there is a threat. Check the records.
Planned Parenthood –
Louisiana – no abortion services performed.
Texas – no fetal tissue donation program
Pennsylvania – no fetal tissue donation program
Florida – no fetal tissue donation program.
and the list goes on. How many millions have been spent investigating nothing? Bobby Jindal ordered and investigation to loud applause even though PP does not have a license to perform even one abortion in Louisiana – but no fear, he is there to take the applause.
There are two fetal tissue donation programs – in California and Washington. Less than 3% of procedures are for abortion services. But lets defund the STD, contraception and fetal monitoring programs – or move the money to other clinics (get this – Obamacare funded clinics, yes the GOP wants to fund more money to community clinics that were created via Obamacare).
Another standing ovation for Pat.
These are important facts to show that the real objection is simply to Planned Parenthood, not to fetal tissue harvesting.
@Moon-howler
I’m one of those who can’t figure out the Trump-appeal. I can understand being fed up with politicians, but there are alternatives. Still, of the three policy papers Trump has released (immigration, 2A, tax reform), there is much for the serious conservative (as opposed to the silly) to like.
I hate his immigration policy. I am unfamiliar with his 2A policy and the tax reform appears to have some merit. It’s the delivery system that just makes me shudder. He is so rude and such a braggart! I am a strong advocate of humility.
And who are the Demogogs here. Answer Cargo’s question: “If the entire budget except PP is funded, and that budget is vetoed…… is that not direct evidence that (1) the President values one single entity that is skating the law and committing atrocities over the health of the nation and (2) the President and the Democrats – not republcans – are fully responsible for any services or economic failures?
http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/10/former-planned-parenthood-clinic-director-explains-the-tissue-donation-process/
How does one perform an abortion on an ultrasound?
So what part offends your sensibilities the most, Blue? I think this is an important question to discuss.
PP performs no tissue donation in Texas. Next.
@Moon-howler
I agree. Presentation is half the meal. Don’t serve me a steak on a trashcan lid. I don’t care if it’s a perfect ribeye. I can’t get past the plate.
Still, when I read his policy papers, I think “he’s hired the right people to win, in the current climate”. His 2A and tax polices are spot-on. His health care, plan is what the ACA should have been. Send him to charm school, he’d be a good candidate.
Walker is out. Rubio is my guy now.
@Steve, I hated myself for thinking I liked his tax plan. But right out of the box, it sounded pretty good. I have not even looked at the 2A proposal. I think the trashcan lid is a great analogy.
Rubio is not solid on reproductive rights. In fact, he is far to the right. No abortion for any reason. That is a deal breaker for me. I like some of the stuff he says, but not the reproductive stuff. I would actually like to sit this election out. I will probably just quietly go in the voting booth, pull the curtain and vote for the person who makes me the least sick. Actually, I always end up voting for the Supreme Court nominee. How sad is that?
@Pat.Herve
References, please. I would like to see your sources that show no harvesting takes place these states.
3% of procedures seems like a very large number to me. Detroit has a murder rate greater than 50 homicides per 100,000 people, or 0.05%, which is considered unacceptable. Three abortions out of every 100 procedures at PP means that the loss of life is at epidemic proportions.
I am trying to digest what you just said. If 100 patients visit a Planned Parenthood facility and 3 of those patients seek abortion services, you think that is too high?
Holy cow. Let’s talk about unintended, unplanned pregnancy. It happens, whether we like it or not. Women will always have abortions, regardless of the legalities. It just wont be as safe. Abortion has been around forever.
The best way I know to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the occurrence of unwanted pregnancies. It really is that basic.
Generally speaking, Planned Parenthood centers are located in urban areas, often very accessible to lower income neighborhoods. Why on earth would anyone want to cut out the 97% of services that protect health and provide contraception, especially for less financially able women? This is the dumbest plan I have ever heard.
The same people who want to defund Planned Parenthood are the same people who howl about entitlement programs for poor people and children. This thought pattern really is becoming cognitive dissonance.
@Scout
It takes very special group-think to blame a government shutdown mostly on Republicans.
The House has every right to remove a line item from the budget. If the Senate minority or president disagree with it, then they can/should offer a compromise. If a compromise is offered and the House still refuses to negotiate, THEN you could argue that the Republicans forced a shutdown unless they get their own way.
But that is not what is happening. If anything controversial is introduced during the normal legislative process, the Dems simply filibuster and prevent it from moving forward. So it generally takes the threat of a shutdown for the Republicans to have any chance of advancing their agenda.
The Dems claim to want to avoid shutting down the government. But, rather than propose/negotiate a compromise (Obamacare, PP, etc), the Dems are perfectly willing to shut down the government, secure in the knowledge that the media will place the blame squarely on the Republicans. As the shutdown drags on and public pressure builds, the R’s will inevitably surrender and the D’s will have successfully avoided any compromise.
The attack on Planned Parenthood is a knee jerk reaction to a very targeted group. They have been receiving Title X funds since the days of Richard Nixon.
What other group has been banned as a Medicaid service provider?
I look at it from a different perspective. Obama and the Democrats are fighting for the status quo. getting rid of PP funding is unacceptable.
Look at the tables from polling. what those legislators are proposing isn’t the will of the people.
I don’t think I could vote for a republican in a national election if you held one of your sacred guns at my head. If there is no acceptable Democrat or independent, I will not vote.
I go back to my foundational point, Kelly. Threatening to shut down government to gain a particular point is an abrogation of these fellows’ function as legislators. Filibustering takes place on either side in the Senate, depending on who is in the majority. I think they ought to change the rule and let things go on a simple majority, but neither side wants it, so those are the rules of the game for both parties. It’s us Rs who are bragging about their willingness to shut down the government to succeed on this or that particular point. This has been going on in one form or another for nearly 20 years. Time to grow up and govern.
Absolutely.
You know, I started off as a Republican. Richard Nixon as a matter of fact. At least he wasn’t obsessed over women’s reproductive issues.
@Kelly_3406
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0928/Planned-Parenthood-investigation-Missouri-AG-finds-no-wrongdoing
3% is too high – but that is a) sometimes (like in Missouri the only abortion provider in the state and b) the population (poor) it is trying to help. Those with money fly to other destinations in order to have the abortion in privacy – including relatives of some of the most anti-abortion proponents.
It sounds like the group who snuck in and misrepresented themselves might be in some legal trouble.
I am trying to figure out why 3% of the patients who seek an abortion at a planned parenthood is “too high.” What’s the right number? The only other choices are 2 patients or 1 patient. If 0 patients came in for an abortion, then I doubt if the service would even be offered.
I think the fact that 97 people out of 100 patients come in for medical services that AREN”T abortion service speaks highly of the job PP is doing.
Am I missing something?
@ Moon (#67) – Well, it has been downhill for those of us you left behind ever since. We’re eagerly waiting for your return.
It won’t be any time soon until you all clean up the mess in that party. Give me Richard Nixon.
For those writing off Hillary—she hasn’t yet unleashed her not so secret weapon. Her husband Bill Clinton.
Some of you all are forgetting the incredible hold he has on the American people.
It’s wishful thinking that she will be gone any time soon. It very well could be 2025.
@Moon-howler
Oooh Oooh I can do better! http://americandigest.org/nutty-debbie-shultz.jpg
Just to bring it back to the original topic, the Republican party has an excellent opportunity to govern given Boehner’s lame duck time remaining. He could use Democratic votes to pass legislation that the clear majority of Americans want, such as reasonable gun control, the Senate immigration bill, long term government funding – all the stuff he wouldn’t bring up because he couldn’t get it passed with Republican votes only.
Obviously, the way Boehner ran the House was for the most part contrary to the bipartisan compromise that the founders envisioned, but he could get back to that model as his last act if he had the guts. We’ll see…
@Moon-howler
The statistic on abortions is presented as if the proportion is small and relatively insignificant. But notice that PP does not report on the percentage of its patients that get abortions, but rather on the percentage of services that are abortions. Why do you suppose that is?
The answer is that it probably makes the number of abortions appear smaller. The key is to realize that a single customer most likely uses multiple services. As an example, suppose that PP customers use 5 services per visit on average. Then the 3% rate quoted by PP implies that 3 out of every 20 women get abortions at PP, which translates to a rate of 15%. That is a much more horrifying number in terms of human life lost.
So a rate of 15% would be much harder to claim that abortion is a negligible part of PP services.
Do I know what the real percentage is? No. But the use of such a meaningless statistic shows that PP is not being very transparent, which is why I do not trust them.
Who you should not trust is the organization that made bogus video, inserting someone’s dead still-born in the picture. It had nothing to do with Planned Parenthood. You should also resent like Hell that congress is wasting tax payer money on a witch hunt, using the product of liars as a basis.
When people go for an abortion, they get an abortion, they don’t get 4 or 5 different procedures done.
It’s fine to believe abortion is wrong, for you. It isn’t fine to make that determination for everyone else who might not share your belief system. It is a legal procedure in this country, guaranteed by the Constitution.
right now, I am so outraged over how Cecile Richards was treated by the Republican bullies on that Oversight committee that I barely think straight. What hideous pigs some of them were.
I am rewatching it on cspan at the moment.
@Pat.Herve
Thanks.
@Moon-howler
The Constitution does not guarantee abortion. A court decision allows abortion. I am not trying to impose my belief on anyone, but I am interested in verifying that the Hyde Amendment is followed to prevent federal funding from supporting abortion either directly or indirectly.
Planned Parenthood is fairly transparent other than patient identity. I don’t know why you think the organization would compromise itself by using public funds for abortion. How do you know your local hospital isn’t doing the same thing? How about your family practice? Perhaps it doesn’t take Medicare or Medicaid patients?
The Hyde Amendment has been around for decades. People are pretty used to it.
If you put it that way, then the Constitution doesn’t guarantee school integration (Brown) or freedom from arrest if you practice any sex other than missionary style(Lawrence). It also means that CVS can stop selling any form of contraception and you are out of luck. (Griswald)
It also means you can be arrested if you marry someone not of your race. (Loving)
Actually Roe v Wade doesn’t “allow” abortion. The ruling based on other cases affirmed a woman’s right to abortion.
I say 3% is too high – yes, I think it is too high. I think it should be lower. With the abundance of contraception, education and some personal restraint – it should be lower. There are still some out there that refuse to educate young people (yes, both men and woman) – on how to better prepare for pregnancy prevention. And that is exactly the population that PP tries to target. AND, PP treats men too – men go in there all the time for STD treatment – but that money is well spent ;).
What Chaffetz did to the PP CEO yesterday is appalling.
Yes it was appalling. He was rude. Jordan of Ohio was also rude. Do these men have wives and daughters? What do they think?
As for the 3%, I think it is pretty darn good. 3 out of 100 patients come for abortion services. I guess I am a glass is half full kind of person. 0 would be best but I am a realist. Some people also get pregnant of contraception.
Then there are people who will never assume sexual responsibility. I don’t necessarily think those people should become parents. Why perpetuate the problem.
The PP CEO’s testimoney and response to questions was somehow familiar in a Clinton-esque kind of way. The inability to get a straight answer from her and how the answer moved when confronted with more information has left that that all to familiar bad taste in one’s mouth. The Chris Cumo interview with the PP Exec VP as he was clearly on her side and was trying to help her did not help. I don’t think the members were rude as much as they were frustrated.
They were rude and didn’t give her time to answer. They talked over her. I watched 4 hours of that behavior. Just because you and they don’t understand how it works doesn’t mean she didn’t answer. Yes, she said she didn’t know some answers but that she would get them.
I would have applauded her if she had stood up, told them all what they could do to themselves, and walked out.
If you didn’t think Jordan and Chaffetz were rude, then I have nothing to say to you. Their behavior was deplorable.
@Moon-howler
You do not know that it is 3 out of 100 patients. The statistic is three out of 100 PROCEDURES. It could be 3 out of 10 patients for all we know.
If you go in for an abortion, that’s what you have done….an abortion. You don’t have other services.
I see what you are saying. Even if there were 10 out of 100 patients who go in for an abortion, so what? That isn’t Planned Parenthood’s fault.
I think I never grasped your point. Are you upset that PP is performing so many abortions or that there are so many unwanted pregnancies?>
@Moon-howler
Obama doesn’t like bullies? He IS a bully. See the IRS. See the EPA. See the DOJ and NLRB. See his “pen and a phone.” See his “punch back twice as hard.”
The gov’t doesn’t “control” the stock market?
It provides free money to it.
It provides zero interest to it.
It provides QE billions to it.
It bails out banks and corporations.
Your portfolio is in trouble because China is starting to fail and the Fed’l Reserve is realizing that the money train is not working.
I disagree. I always disagree when you deny that irresponsible Republican behavior in Congress gives the market the jitters.