This video asks a lot of questions. Let me ask a few.
Is the cop definitely wrong?
Would you feel differently if the student had been male?
Do we know what the student did?
Would you want your child’s instruction disrupted by this student or another student?
What would have been a better way to remove this student from the classroom?
Will incidents like this keep individuals from becoming public servants?
Watching TV today, I heard a number of people in the media pontificating on how horrible the police officer was. I had a flash back to a few fairly evil students I had encountered over the years. I found myself thinking, “walk a mile in my moccasins.” Then I thought about the police officer. I am sure he will be fired. I can feel it. (I hope I am wrong.)
Should SRO’s be used to remove students from the classroom? How does a teacher make a student leave? How does an administrator make a student leave? What keeps students like this one from disrupting instruction daily?
Make no mistake. The student bore into the desk and used her legs to attach herself to that desk. How does any school handle this kind of disruption? I am not sure I know other than physically removing the student. Here we are back to square one.
I am sure there are folks out there who feel I am just a mean sob. Think about your child sitting in a classroom where one or two students continually disrupt instruction, who fail to vacate the classroom when instructed to do so. How is your child going to learn? In a week school system, that student will never be disciplined for forced to leave. You will have to provide private instruction for your child. Welcome, taxpayers, to getting screwed over royally.
Just one more thing–many people want the SRO’s to be school guards. I don’t think so. That isn’t their function. In PWC, the SRO’s are uniformed law enforcement officers with special training
You make good points about in-class discipline. Even better is the point about the role of police officers as school employees. This was a discipline issue, not a police issue. If the kid committed a crime, the police could be called in. From what I’ve seen and read about this, it seems like the student was not engaged in criminal activities, but was being a disruptive jackass. Schools need to have ways of dealing with this without bringing in police.
Another observation: Many of these over-the-top police incidents seem to reflect overt anger issues from the officer. Of all the emotions a police officer needs to keep a lid on in confrontations with citizens, I would think anger would be very high on the list. Especially when there is such a disproportion of size, weaponry, strength, force etc. This student got his goat (I have no doubt she was being annoying) and he roughed her up because of it. They have to be trained and re-trained to keep cool. They have all the advantages. It’s in everyone’s interests, including the interests of the individual officer, to stay cool.
I got to thinking about this scene. What would PWC do. How do you remove a disruptive kid if they fail to leave? At what point does it become trespassing?
PWC calls the cops over fights. I am not sure if a resource officer is used if one is available if a fight breaks out. I think it is a fine thin line. Also, PWC’s resource officers are employees of the police department, not the school system.
I have to confess….when I saw what the kid was doing (boring in, using her legs to cling to the desk, etc) I wanted to pound her. There is not enough money in PWC to make me want to teach. It is simply outrageous what people are asked to tolerate.
I don’t disagree with Scout, I am just not sure how this one should have been handled.
Gee Mom, I had a great day in school. We had math class and one girl started talking back to the teacher about her homework. The teacher asked her to stop, but she wouldn’t so she asked her to leave. When she refused and kept on talking the teacher got the vice principal who told her to leave the room and she yelled at him and would not leave, so the vice principal went to get the resource officer who gave here a choice to leave or be taken out. She held on tight to the chair and told the officer off. Then the police officer said hey, there is nothing I can do about it and left.
Well then, what did you learn in math class today said the mom. Oh that’s easy, if you don’t do your homework all you have to do is yell and scream about how its the sytems fault and they cannot do anthing about it if you yell its racism. Then Dad said, rather that force her to leave, he should have handcuffed her to the chair for her parents to pick her up and then had the other students go to another room.
Blue, just throw me across the room. I am beginning to think like you.
How do you remove an unwilling and disruptive student?
If this guy gets fired, what message will it send?
Deputy fired. He didn’t follow procedure. It wasn’t as bad as it could have been.
Bad procedures. First off, when a troublesome student does not do as asked – you clear the classroom of all other unnecessary people. And then you handle it. Total overreaction by the PO.
I disagree about clearing the classroom. That craters the instruction for the day.
I’m so glad my kids are well out of public schools now. The kids are pushing the envelope every day, and they know that the administration either can’t or won’t do a damned thing about it. Now the brat gets her YouTube fame and who knows what other gain from being disrespectful and disobedient.
Not saying the officer was completely right. But, like Clock Boy, the girl’s violation of the rules is making her some kind of victimized hero. This is BS. I could never be a teacher under those conditions.
I absolutely could not/would not teach now. Elena and I are in a snit fit over the text books…the books the kids don’t have. I can’t even get my school board representative to respond to me.
This nasty …oh I will just call it like I see it…little bitch is going to be a hero. Her parents will sue and more kids will get on the band wagon. I am not sure he even intended to sling her across the room. She was holding on tight…and like tug of war, when someone turns lose…it is amazing what happens.
I hope she is permanently expelled along with her other little bitch friend. There is no way they were right.
When there wasn’t cell phones (and the child who did document it was charged with a crime for doing so) the authorities never question whether the police officers or the staff followed procedures. The children who complained about being assaulted would always be declared lying troublemakers. At least now we have a more level field and police and teachers can’t get away with the abuse that I saw when I was in school. I remember a sadistic science teacher who got off on paddling kids for chewing gum or missed homework.
If the student is not violent then there is absolutely no reason for police to violently engage. You use pressure to make children who don’t exit the room uncomfortable. Pulling the chair into the hall with the student in it would have worked too. A chokehold and throwing a child across the room is certainly way out of line.
Criminalization of discipline and the criminalization of anyone daring to speak out against authority is an abuse of power. It also shows the danger of putting police officers in school. Police should be perimeter guards only and should not be part of the school staff. Civil rights are trampled when police are given parental rights over children and engage children with violence.
@Ed Myers
Ed, the other girl was disruptive and disrespectful. She wasn’t charged for using her cell phone.
The girl in the chair stole everyone else’s instructional time. She was disruptive and rude to authority. Do you want something like that kid stealing your kids’ education?
Apparently the teacher and an administrator could not get to her. what would you have them do? It sounds like you would just let her steal the rest of the day…lesson over. She had to be removed. I see no other way.
I am rather dumbfounded that you see no harm done to the other children or school personnel. You seem to be worried about some student who behaved atrociously.
I will say at this point, watching carefully, I am not sure he intended to sling her across the room. she might have turned loose of the chair as he was attempting to extricate her. I guess we will never know. She was boring into the chair and holding on with her legs, that’s for sure.
Disruptive students need to be removed from the classroom but you do that without violence. Handcuff her and slide the chair into the hallway. Class continues.
You can’t teach students not to get into fights with each other because they are angry or hate someone because of their attitude or culture and then have the SRO illustrate getting into a fight. That is why he needed to be fired. Otherwise every student who gets into a fight can simply say: well that’s what the school administrators do when someone disrespects them. I’m just following the role models.
Ever been in a classroom with a kid like this?
Even handcuffing her would have been a fight. Then what would you have done with her once she was in the hallway, assuming you could even get her that far.
I agree that’s a hell of a thing for people to have to witness but the student very much started the situation and hopefully will be held responsible for it.
You are aware that the officer was assaulted by the student from the onset? She punched him with her fists.
Exaggerations used to claim the arrestee assaulted the police officer is SOP. It is a way to rack up the charges into felony range for more leverage in later plea bargaining and to get the arrestee to forgo claims of police brutality.
In any event the school response needed to be proportional. A person seated in a chair cannot harm someone with a punch unless that person is in their face. Throwing someone on the floor can certainly harm someone. It really isn’t hard for three people to drag a desk and student handcuffed into the hall. After the student calms down you discuss whether they can follow instructions and be a respectful or be expelled.
The school needs to learn how to diffuse situations where there is a conflict so it can teach without modeling violent behavior. The school gave a horrible lesson in conflict resolution.
Punching a cop can harm you also. There was other film footage.
Tell you what….if I had been the instructor in that classroom, I wouldn’t have been one of the three dragging the chair of that little bitch. I would have called administration to have her removed.
I actually think handcuffing a student and leaving them in the hall in incredibly inappropriate. There is way too much liability involved. At some point, the student was trespassing.
I expect you and I are coming at this from a different perspective.
The incident began Monday in Columbia after the student refused to turn over to a teacher a cellphone SHE WAS USING IN CLASS sand then refused to leave the classroom. Fields was called in to assist, and after the girl refused to comply with his orders, he took action.
Two videos of Fields ripping the student from her chair and dragging her along the floor soon went viral, leading many to argue that this was a clear-cut case of police brutality and racism. But as has happened before, the new video might tell a different story.
By Monday evening, Fields had been suspended without pay and an internal investigation had been launched. Two days later, Lott revealed that a THIRD VIDEO essentially vindicated Fields “I wanted to throw up,” Lott said in regard to the first video. “This makes you sick to your stomach when you see that initial video. But that’s just a snapshot.”
According to Lott, the third video showed the student attempting to punch Fields in the face after he put his hands on her. The point appears to be that Fields had no other option but to pull the girl out of her seat and try to get her under control.
I’m glad that officer was fired from his job. There is no excuse whatsoever for that kind of boorish behavior.
These situations often seem to get stuck on discussions about whether the victim was behaving outrageously or not. Let’s just stipulate that the victim was way out of line. Then the question becomes, when one has a school discipline problem, when is it OK to bring in police? Next question: when the police do come in, when is OK for them to throw kids around the room? Next question: aren’t we smart enough to find ways to keep this kind of thing from happening?
I am not sure we are smart enough to keep things like this from happening. I guess I would ask, how do you teach with a kid disrupting class like this?
That’s a different question, Moon, than whether the police force should come into the schools and throw kids around for being discipline problems. I come from a family of schoolteachers. They all teach (or taught) in different schools with different demographics and different discipline problems. But from rich suburb to inner city, they all have had discipline problems, and, across three generations, the options for dealing with those problems have become narrower. My parents’ generation could get physical with disrupters in ways my daughter or sister cannot. In no case, however, were police coming into the schools and roughing up students. My sense of this incident in SC was that the cop was stupidly, unnecessarily abusive, and that the police should not have been involved unless a crime was suspected.
That leaves your question about what is a teacher to do unanswered. My sense of it is that you need a resourceful, intelligent administration in these schools to mete out discipline, leaving the teachers free to teach.
In PWC, cops escort from class if asked to do so. I think there has to be real definance…like when told to leave class. As school personnel have fewer options available to them, as kids get more defiant and disrespectful, the more cops will be used to enforce.
Let’s face it, if I tell some 6 foot kid to leave and he chooses not to, what am I going to do about it? Nada.
I don’t have a problem with cops in the schools. I have a real problem with nasty, defiant kids being allowed to disrupt instruction, especially since 40% of teacher evaluation is based on test scores.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/spring-valley-high-results-disruptive-students-not-disciplined-cop-fired-admin-suspended-teacher-removed-from-class/
Apparently, many students are supporting the cop.
This story makes me sick. Do you have links to other sources that verify that this is true?
If I had a kid in that school, I would probably pull them out and home school them. What a bunch of wimps.
You know that girl had probably been bullying and terrorizing the other kids all year.
@Moon-howler
The link that was embedded has local details and more links to the rest of the story.
http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2015/10/31/students-spring-valley-incident-allowed-return-class/74942096/
I noticed that none of the other kids in the class were on the girl’s side other than her buddy. That speaks volumes about her prior behavior and how she got along with her classmates.
This case sets a terrible precedent.
We can’t teach children that it is OK to beat up on the unlikable children…the ones with family and social problems that makes school difficult for them. That is how we create cliques and mean girls and bullies. The encouragement to the strong and socially popular students that it is OK to pick on and physically abuse the weaker, unpopular children is going to ruin many lives. Terrible precedent indeed by all those who took the side of the resource officer.
Brains are wired differently and some brains do not appreciate raw power demands. If someone demands that I do something and cannot articulate a reason; perhaps something like : because I told you to and I’m the boss and you are the minion, then that’s pretty much guaranteed to create strong obstinacy. If you ask me to do something and explain why and listen and accommodate my modifications to the request, it will get done because you show respect to me as a person. Start yelling at me and demand I do things your way or the highway and you’ll get nothing but a blank stare and zero cooperation.
Teachers should be trained to handle diversity and not be authoritarian pricks who insist that all children bow to authority like slaves. Police, too, could take a lesson in personality types and learn that acting tough and in charge might work for most subjects but is detrimental to accomplishing their goal for a small minority of people who fiercely object to this kind of bullying.
Respecting is a two way street.
It sounds like you are recommending the school of anarchy. You have to have some authority in order to deliver instruction.
You live in utopia if you think otherwise.
You want cops to be social workers and shrinks. That will not happen.
One size doesn’t fit all in discipline and that throwing people around is physical abuse that has the opposite of the desired effect of creating a learning environment. If the police/administrators want cooperation they will have to get it from those who respond positively to being beaten. Others will seethe in resentment and the smarter ones will retaliate in unexpected ways that will be far more disruptive to the school. In the worse case you create a Columbine. Enjoy thinking you have control after a beatdown because later you’ll find out you lost control the moment you decided to use force to compel compliance to authoritarian whims.
(We are not talking about the legitimate use of force to prevent someone from harming themselves or others.)
Are we still talking about the South Carolina incident? @ Ed
Obviously beat downs aren’t the issue. I thought we had moved on to the newer video?
Ed, you and I aren’t going to agree on this issue. I have been there–many years in fact. You have to maintain discipline if learning is to take place. Those who want to blurt out, practice attention-seeking behaviors and disrupt the class have to be removed.
Should they be thrown across the floor? No. But let’s put it this way—if some nasty little bitch takes a slide, I am not going to go boo hooing about it.
The girl in the SC video needs to be expelled. If you are told to leave the room, do it.
The point I’m making is that physical manhandling a troublemaker might make the teacher feel good and get high-5s from parents but it psychologically damages the kids who don’t cause trouble but are traumatized by this violence against children. It also wrongly teaches them that it is OK to take out frustrations on weaker people who don’t do what they are told. Mix in a little religious fundamentalism (Christian or Islam) and the view that wives have to submit to the authority of their husbands and you have a recipe for terrible abuse, especially of women. You are missing the irony of women modeling for children how to do domestic violence. Teachers need to use a different approach for troubled youths, possibly in a different setting.
Troubled youths should be in alternative programs. That does not negate the fact that they need to behave themselves.
You are worried about children with negative behaviors–worry about the kids that are doing the right thing. Why should the default be to cater to some nasty little brat? FYI, some of these children you are talking about are also grown men for all practical purposes.
I also find your attitude disrespectful towards the thousands of teachers out there daily who risk life and limb dealing with really nasty behaviors. Same with cops.
Physical violence against children or chaos in the classroom is not the only two choices for teachers.
I still have bad memories of the middle school science teacher who really enjoyed paddling students. He had quite a collection of paddles and used them often. My attitude is probably the result of that bad experience. Sure he wasn’t typical of teachers but neither is every student a “nasty brat.”
There are techniques for dealing with uncooperative people that doesn’t require violence. I am adamant that teachers and police use non-violent approaches because of the spill-over effect of teaching the next generation to be a less violent society just as much as you are adamant that children deserve to be roughed up to scare other children into compliance.
I am not adamant that children be beaten up and I highly resent you suggesting that I have ever advocated such. Perhaps it is time for you to either stick to facts or find another blog to dump your utopiean world view on.
There are times that children have to be removed from the classroom. Period. News flash: some kids are nasty brats and my kids have the right to be educated without those students disrupting.
Did you see the other video? How on earth can you justify a student the size of a full grown man threatening a teacher like that? That student should be doing jail time.
For the record, your science teacher’s behavior, based on your account, was unacceptable. Where was the principal? I saw that happen once. I reported it. It stopped.